Top 10 Reasons Jesus Christ Never Existed

Top 10 Reasons Jesus Christ Never Existed

Religion is one of the most enduringly powerful forces on earth.  Two of the most influential, both today and in the past, Christianity and Islam, believe that Jesus Christ played a pivotal role in both faiths.

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin birth, was crucified and resurrected for the remission of sins.  Muslims believe that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth brought forth by the command of Allah and became one of his most important (and subsequently revered) prophets.  Muslims do not believe that Jesus was crucified but that another man died in his place.

Whether or not we believe in the existence and life of Christ as a matter of faith most people are prepared to accept that Jesus was a real and verifiable historical figure; that he was born, lived and died in Judea between around 4BC and 33AD.  This has been repeated so many times that most people do not ever think to challenge it but should they?  Did a man called Jesus, son of Mary (and adoptive son of Joseph) walk the paths of Judea or was he merely a figment of imagination?  A group of stories and myths pulled together by a range of cynical individuals for a particular purpose?

If you are a Christian, of course, the existence of Christ is a matter of faith but should non-Christians believe in Jesus so readily?  Here are our top 10 reasons to claim that Jesus never existed.

  1. There is no contemporaneous account of the life of Jesus

Jesus does not exist in the historical record. All we have is this selfie. Jesus Christ never existed.
Jesus does not exist in the historical record. All we have is this selfie. Jesus Christ never existed.

Not only is nothing in the bible capable of being directly linked to the time in which Jesus was reputed to be alive (see below) but there are absolutely no contemporaneous accounts that speak of Jesus.  As far as the historical record is concerned he just did not exist.  The Gospels claim that Jesus’ ministry was famous across the region and well known to people such as Herod and Pontius Pilate.  In the later part of his ministry it is claimed that he was followed by great multitudes of people and, of course, in one instance that he fed 5,000.

There is not a single mention in him in military records or dispatches back to Rome (surely anyone who could command huge gatherings of people in a potentially disruptive province should be of interest).  He is not mentioned in the records of Herod’s court nor is he mentioned in the records of the Temple or by any Priests.  Surely if he was believed by some to be a prophet and others to be a false prophet some mention of the ructions he was causing in Judean civic and religious society should have been recorded.  Some people like to point to the supposed letters of Pontius Pilate as evidence of Jesus’ life but these were a work of fiction.

Of course it is possible (although unlikely, the Roman Empire was very efficient) that contemporaneous accounts existed but disappeared.

  1. All Later Accounts Of The Life Of Jesus Are Pure Hearsay

Hearsay? You wouldn't say that to sassy, playful Jesus.
Hearsay? You wouldn’t say that to sassy, playful Jesus.

Even though there are no contemporaneous lifetime reports of the existence of Jesus there are references to him in Christian writing (see below) and non-Christian texts in the decades after his alleged death.

Not a single one of these accounts is a credible account of his life.  None of them reference any earlier texts and are therefore nothing more than hearsay and, as such unreliable.  If we condemn hearsay evidence as unreliable in our court systems why should it be sufficient to establish the existence of an important historical figure?

The evidence that is usually cited in support for the existence of Jesus comes from the writings of Josephus Flavius who was born in 37AD (some years after the crucifixion) and wrote about the life of Jesus in 93AD, after the Gospels were written.  He cited no sources for his materials.  Similarly Pliny the Younger (born around 62BC, Tacitus (64AD) and Suetonius (69AD) all wrote about Jesus but without any reference to contemporaneous sources.  It is likely they got their information from believers but without sources the passages do nothing more than document a social phenomenon.

In the previous point we mentioned that it is possible that contemporaneous sources existed but have since been destroyed or disappeared.  If they did exist it is likely that these three respected historians (Tacitus in particular was known for the high quality of his research and referencing) would have referred to it directly rather than have relied on hearsay.

  1. The Gospels Were Written As Christian Propaganda

Christianity and sweet, sweet propaganda!
Christianity and sweet, sweet propaganda!

To Christians everywhere the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the authoritative sources of the happenings of the life of Christ as written by his disciples, those who knew him best and observed his ministry.

Originally there were many more Gospels. When the final four were settled on as the orthodox account in the second century the other gospels were denounced as heretical.  Copies of these ‘spare’ gospels were found in the Dead Sea, and at Nag Hammadi during the previous century but there is no evidence of who wrote them and none appear to be copies of a contemporaneous source.  One of these documents, however, the Gospel of Thomas, does appear to predate the Gospel of Mark.  It does not contain any reference to Jesus as a historical figure, as the messiah or any reference to the resurrection.  It is, instead, a collection of ‘sayings’. It was denounced as heresy.

The fact that the leaders of the early church denounced this original Gospel in favor of four mostly narrative pieces of writing, shows that they were selecting works for the purpose of creating an evidentiary trail for the existence of Jesus.

  1. The Gospels Are Unlikely To Have Been Written By Disciples Who Knew Jesus.

Jesus would've been long dead before any his gospels were written.
Jesus would’ve been long dead before any his gospels were written.

The Gospel of Mark, although the second in the New Testament, was the first to be written, probably around 70AD while the gospel of John was written in around 90AD.

Nowhere in any of the gospels do the authors identify themselves as the disciples and their companions of the same name.  The average life expectancy in Judea at the time of Christ and shortly thereafter was around 29-30 years.  Although that number is an average and people did live to an old age very few of them made it to 50 (around 4%) and even fewer to 70 (2%).  Shortly after the Crucifixion was meant to have taken place the Jewish wars decimated the population of Judea.  Many of those who would have known Jesus personally (in the event he had existed) would most likely have been caught up in the war.  The disciples were probably about the same age as Jesus or perhaps just a few years younger.  This would have made the disciples around 70 years old at the time the Gospel of Mark was written and over 90 at the time John was authored.  It is, therefore almost impossible for the disciples to have authored the Gospels.  It is far more likely that they were penned by much younger men.

Mark, as the original Gospel appears to have served as the source material for the gospels of Matthew and Luke and there are significant overlaps between those three.  Each author changes the narrative slightly to suit the time in which they are writing and the target audience their news is aimed at.  John is the most troubling of all the gospels and appears to have been written by a number of different authors.

  1. The Earliest Books Of The New Testament, The Epistles Of Paul, Do Not Ever Refer To Jesus As A Living Being.

The epistle Paul was extremely bossy and took joy telling people how to live. He didn't know Jesus.
The epistle Paul was extremely bossy and took joy telling people how to live. He didn’t know Jesus.

The Epistles of St Paul are the earliest books of the New Testament but St Paul did not know Jesus during his supposed lifetime.

St Paul was born in around 10 AD to an Israelite family.  He served as a tax collector and was well known for his anti-Christian views and is said to have participated in the stoning of St Stephen.  He became one of the most high profile converts to the new religion when he was said to have had a divine vision of the risen Christ on the road to Damascus.  He was subsequently baptized and went to Arabia before returning to work on behalf of the early church.  He made long journeys around the Mediterranean during which he spread the word and wrote his now famous epistles.

13 of the Epistles, which predate both Acts and the Gospels were included in the New Testament but only 7 of them (Philemon, Romans, Corinthians I, II, Philippians, Thessalonians I and Galatians) are considered to have been written by him directly.

Paul would not, of course, have known Jesus personally but he makes no claim of such knowledge in his epistles.  Indeed he makes practically no references to an earthly life for Jesus instead advising fellow Christians on how to live their lives.  In this way Paul sets out what it means to be a Christian, creating a framework which has survived to this day.

  1. The New Testament Was Designed To Promote Christianity Not Document Historical Fact.

The new testament. Like New Coke but with more staying power.
The new testament. Like New Coke but with more staying power.

In the early years of Christianity there were a number of different and competing interpretations.  We have already mentioned the wealth of different books and gospels that were discovered at the Dead Sea and Nag Hammadi.  Many of these writings followed a gnostic tradition that was at odds with what became the orthodox interpretation of Christianity.

In the second century Irenaeus of Lyon started to codify the New Testament and identified the four Gospels which we use today as part of the Canon, rejecting all other interpretations.  He wrote eloquently and vehemently in his book Against Heresies to establish exactly what should be included and excluded in the definition of Christianity.  Our modern day New Testament is, therefore, very much one man’s vision and interpretation of what Christianity should be.  Irenaeus was not interested in documenting the facts, he was interested in setting out his beliefs and ensuring that others followed him.

This tradition has been well entrenched in the Church over the succeeding centuries with any sects deemed as heretical being put down violently or even eliminated altogether (eg the Cathars).  Writing towards the end of the 4th Century St Jerome said ‘assurance often explains that of which it knows nothing; and when it has convinced others imposes on itself.’. The thoroughly unpleasant Ignatius Loyola famously said that he was willing to believe that white is black if required to by the church.

Why should the early Christian zealots have been any different?  They were not, their behavior set the tone for the rest of the church through history and for that reason we should be extremely skeptical of the New Testament and any claims it makes about the life of Jesus.  It is nothing more than a propaganda treatise.

  1. There Is No Historical Evidence Of An Eclipse, Earthquake Or Rending Of The Veil In The Temple Supposed To Have Happened At The Moment Of Jesus’ Death.

There is no historical evidence of an eclipse occuring after Jesus's supposed death.
There is no historical evidence of an eclipse occuring after Jesus’s supposed death.

The Gospel of Matthew (Chapter 27) and the Gospel of Luke (Chapter 23) give an in-depth account of the events of the crucifixion.  Both agree that there was a sudden darkness (possibly an eclipse or a dust cloud from a volcano) that fell on the land between the 6th and 9th hours of the day.  They also explain that at the moment of Jesus’ death ‘the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent’. The earthquake is said to have been so severe that the graves of the dead burst open which must have been an extremely traumatic event, particularly when combined with an eclipse.

Except it did not happen!  Key events such as earthquakes and eclipses would have been recorded in detail by contemporary historians and an earthquake severe enough to burst graves would have been recorded both by the Jewish court and by the Roman administrators.  There are no secular records at all of any relief efforts being sent to Jerusalem or of any rebuilding works.  Finally the veil in the temple was extremely precious and any damage to it would have been recorded.

The only explanation for this lack of reporting is that the earthquake and eclipse simply did not occur, at least not in that time and place.  There were contemporary earthquakes elsewhere in the Empire (to which aid was sent) and we know that earthquakes happened in Jerusalem over that period but nothing in the geologic record can pin one exactly to the alleged date and time of the crucifixion.  Indeed the only sources to link an eclipse (or volcanic debris) are Christian, clearly trying to establish a link between the supposed death of Jesus and the divine.

  1. There Are No Tangible Historical Artifacts Linked To Jesus.

The Shroud of Turin was revealed as a fake.
The Shroud of Turin was revealed as a fake.

I. Pilon / Shutterstock.com

Anyone who has lived, even a simple carpenter, will leave possessions after their death.  The Gospels claim that the soldiers on duty at the crucifixion cast lots to share out Jesus’ clothing amongst them.  Had he really had many devoted disciples (who would have been disgusted at their failure to protect him in the Garden) they or his grieving family would surely have tried to purchase or barter back the clothing.  Such items would have been invaluable in the formation of the new church.

Nevertheless, nothing, absolutely nothing from Jesus’ life remained, even shortly after his demise.  In the 12th Century people started to mention that they owned the shroud in which Jesus had been wrapped and, years later it surfaced in Turin.  It was accepted as a genuine artifact for many years but carbon dating in the 20th Century showed it to be a 12th Century forgery.  An ossuary claiming to hold the bones of James, brother of Jesus was also found to be a forgery.  There is not one single, verifiable, tangible object in existence today or known to have existed at any time in the past 2,000 years that belonged to Jesus.

  1. The City Of Nazareth Did Not Exist During The Time Jesus Is Reputed To Have Been Alive.

    Protasov AN / Shutterstock.com

The City of Nazareth is old but Jesus old. Jesus Christ never existed.
The City of Nazareth is old but not Jesus old. Jesus Christ never existed.

Jesus was known as the Nazarene, possibly because he is reputed to have been from Nazareth.  For many people there is no reason to doubt this claim.  Nazareth exists today, an old town with a long history (and one very famous son) but while Nazareth is old, it is not as old as Jesus or even Christianity.

The historian Josephus lists all the cities in Galilee from around that time and Nazareth is not on the list.  Nazareth is not mentioned in the Epistles, the first books of the New Testament to be written (see above), indeed there is no reference to the name until the Gospels.  Excavations of the current day Nazareth and the surrounding area have led to mixed results.  Evidence of human activity has been found from around the time when Jesus was alleged to have lived there but this activity was in the form of a necropolis for the dead and not a village in its own right.

An alternative translation of the word Nazarene is ‘truth’ and was a name given to a gnostic sect of Christians.  It is possible that when the traditions split and the gnostic heritage was excised from Christianity the phrase was reimagined to state that Jesus was from Nazareth which, of course, was by then in existence.

  1. The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real.

Jesus Christ never existed but rather his life was modeled on other prior mystical figures like Osiris and Horus.
Jesus Christ never existed but rather his life was modeled on other prior mystical figures like Osiris and Horus.

Children who grow up in Western societies, even if not formally educated in the Christian tradition, are aware of the amazing life story of Jesus.  He was conceived and born in a stable to a virgin (Mary), escaped death at the hands of a tyrant (Herod) in his infancy, grew to be a precociously knowledgeable child, started his ministry of preaching before giving himself to be sacrificed, resurrecting after death and giving rise to a new covenant for the remission of sins.  It is a story full of wonder and hope and, for many people it would appear unique and it is an article of deep faith and belief for billions of Christians around the world.

Sadly it is not unique.  The story of Jesus is no more original than any modern day knock off of Romeo and Juliet.  Many mythologies have a Christ like character whose story is set around the same pattern.  Osiris, the Egyptian god of the underworld had a very similar life story and the ancient Egyptians celebrated his ‘passion’ with gusto.  Osiris’ son, Horus was born to a virgin in a cave with a star overhead.  He was visited by shepherds and gods.  Horus was said to be the ‘light of the world’.  He started to become active aged about 30 and many miracles were attributed to him that also appear in the gospels including walking on water and letting the blind see again.

But the similarities do not stop there.  Dionysus was the son of Zeus and a virgin woman; he was able to turn water into wine and was killed and resurrected.  Attis, another Greek god was honored every spring in a ritual in which his effigy was buried and believed to rise again after three days.  Hercules was reputed to be another god/virgin offspring who was killed and rose again.

Perhaps the now defunct Christ figure with the most surprisingly similar story was Mithras whose life was an almost exact parallel, his worshipers even celebrated his birthday on 25 December.

 

 

So there you have it – 10 reasons why Jesus Christ never existed.  Christianity is just one big myth!  The church really only started to become successful and gain a foot hold after the conversion of Paul. St Paul used his power and influence to tell people how to live their lives and, once his new religion started to meet with success the writers of the Gospels decided that they needed something more to give the new religion traction.

They had seen what worked and what did not and borrowed the best bits of the most successful god origin stories for their new religion.  They created a savior figure and then skillfully wove it together with hearsay until they had a narrative that they could sell to the masses.  Once that met with success the early founders of the Church ruthlessly eliminated all opposition, particularly from the gnostic traditions.

It is certainly a cracking story, it has proved more successful and enduring than the myths of other ‘sun gods’, you don’t get many people worshiping Mithras or Osiris these days but we hope that this top 10 has convinced you that there is no rational reason to believe in the historical existence of Jesus.

  • Nicholas Hilling

    “The average life expectancy in Judea at the time of Christ and shortly thereafter was around 29-30 years. Although that number is an average and people did live to an old age very few of them made it to 50 (around 4%) and even fewer to 70 (2%).”

    GRRR goddammit! I hate this one. So, the life expectancy of a Roman citizen at the time, on average, was around 35, probably more like 30 in Judea. AT BIRTH. If you lived to be 1, you were expected to live much longer. If you made it to 10, you would probably live to be like 45-60. People WERE NOT dying off at 30 and 35 on average. Life expectancy is not longevity! And where the hell did you get the statistics of 4% living to 50?

    • Bill Cole

      Well, sorry to be specific Life expectancy is “defined statistically as the average number of years remaining for an individual or a group of people at a given age.” So, a person just born (age 0) in classical rome could expect to life 20-30 more years on average.

      • George

        Isn’t that the point he’s making? So, for example:

        Let’s say at birth (age 0) the average life expectancy is 20.5 years (see dataset below). However, this is because 50% of children die within the first 10 years, skewing the average low. If a child makes it to the age of 10, then its average life expectancy at that point is actually 40 years. So since obviously Jesus made it into his teens, it is reasonable that he might live to beyond 40, perhaps even reaching 60 – crucifixions permitting, of course.

        Example Dataset for 100 Births

        Age Band (Number of deaths within band)
        00-10 (50)
        10-20 (10)
        20-30 (10)
        30-40 (10)
        40-50 (10)
        50-60 (10)

        Average life expectancy at birth = 20.5 years
        Average life expectancy at age 10 = 40 years

  • Zach Johnston

    Uh… Are you really saying *no one* was executed for sedition in Judea by the Roman empire near the time of Jesus’ supposed death? Because we do have some crucifixions that look pretty promising. Not a Christian myself, but *no* evidence is going a little far

    • Ugh

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      SAYNG THERE IS NO SECULAR PROOF JESUS NEVER EXISTED IS NOT GOING TOO FAR AT ALL BECAUSE IT IS A FACT! A FACT MOST OF THE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE NON PROHGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIANS ACCEPT.

  • Mike B

    Thousands of years from now, when the faithful celebrate Batman’s defeat of King Joffrey at the Battle of the Twin Towers, as we await the return of the exalted DB Cooper (who Jumped For Our Sins), I wonder if people will still be debating this. Of course, our future faith will derive not from a bunch of easily falsifiable scrolls, but from thousands of separate accounts and actual video. Who could mistake those, after countless generations, as anything but globally accepted historical documents? I mean, if we put it on the Internet, that means it’s 100% factual, right?

  • rebecca

    The most important one is that Jesus wouldn’t of been white. I ask Christians if they would worship a brown Jesus. The hippie look wasn’t established till much later.

    • That goes on a different list: Top 10 Reasons “White Jesus” Never Existed.

  • Jan Scott

    Most telling is early Christian art which depicts Jesus as a young Apollonian wizard with a magic wand. This appears in numerous sculptures. There is no cross and no glorification of suffering until many centuries later. Early art even has Jesus dressed in Roman military costume. Christianity is an urban myth used by the rich and powerful to subdue the unruly Jewish and pagan masses.

    • David

      You’re lost, toots. Voted for Clinton, didn’t you? Wrong again, eh?

  • CTimeline

    It is genuinely not my intention to be abrasive or combative, but all of your points are broadly problematic, and suggestive that your knowledge or awareness of ancient history or this topic (outside of the nonsense conspiracy theory websites that abound) is slight. I can go through each point in detail (there are some real doozies…) but with regards especially to the first point. You are aware that there is hardly any extant literary remains from the 1st century (and indeed broader) Greco-Roman world. You mention quite explicitly military records and dispatches that were sent back to Rome, the records of Herod’s court and the records of the Temples and Priests? Where are these? These are not cataloged or known about in any historical or academic resource. You have just made these up.

    For some background to this. You are aware that any person in antiquity who would not likely be recorded in physical assets such as coins, epigraphs (etc…), that we are dependent upon literary documents to know about their existence. These are extremely rare from antiquity. We probably have less than .001% of all literature from Classical period currently extant. Apart from a few examples, and most of these during specific events such as the Athenian-Spartan conflict, the Second Punic War, or the upheavals during the fall of the Roman Republic, we do not have sources from the time on people in Classical history. We have almost nothing written from the time about dozens of Roman Emperors who ruled one of the largest and most literate societies pre-enlightenment Europe. We only hear of great generals, such as Scipio, decades after the event. Perhaps we might suggest that he didn’t exist too? Great philosophers who mingled with Emperors, politicians and business men, who would have had infinitely more influence (and connections with literate people) than an itinerant Jewish preacher in rural Palestine with only a few regular followers! How much do we know of them from the time of their lives? Practically nothing.

    People like the founders of Stoicism and Epicureanism; their writings were part of every educated Romans’ libraries and had followers (like Christianity) in every major city. So there must be thousands of copies of their writings? No. Apart from three letters of Epicurus almost nothing. Alexander the Great who conquered the whole known world. Well, we must surely have thousands of contemporary reports about him. Nope. We can fit it on about half a page of A4. Consider the “Loeb Classical Library” that has been published byHarvard University Press for over a hundred years. It translates and publishes all the major works from Classical Antiquity. Over 1,000 years of writing, during which time the West enjoyed its first Golden Age of literature. How large is this corpus of material? It can fit into two bookcases (!)- and they are double the size they need to be: each volume supplies the Latin/Greek as well as an English translation.

    Read Professor Robert Garland’s “Celebrity in Antiquity: From Media Tarts to Tabloid Queens” and Graham Anderon’s “Sage, Saint and Sophist: Holy Men and Their Associates in the Early Roman Empire”, try to note down in a spreadsheet how close the extant records we have for apparently well-known people in antiquity (including actors, philosophers, religious charismatics etc”) are. Generally decades, normally over a hundred years after their lives, and they are almost always only referenced in one source. Look at the Jewish historian Josephus’ works. He lists dozens of Jewish leaders who were equal, and in fact exceeded, Jesus in fame and importance during their lives. Who else records them? No one, just Josephus. (by the way no-one mentions Josephus, supposedly this BIG Jewish commander and now client of the Emperor himself, he must never have existed as well!). Want more? Okay. The destruction of Pompeii, a large city and its environs including Herculaneum, completely destroyed and tens of thousands of people vaporized by a volcanic eruption. An event comparable in terms of shock to 9/11, and one that happened just 250km from the Roman capital. This must be recorded EVERYWHERE. Only no. It isn’t. Only one source from near the the time talks about it. So perhaps it, and all these other figures, this must have been made up too- or perhaps people like these non-trained activists need a new argument, and skeptics and sensationalizing journalists need to start to reconsider who they have been electing to gain their knowledge of the ancient world and early Christian history from.

    One interesting exercise to show how ancient fame vis-a-vis ancient literary records works is to compare Jesus with Cato the Younger. Cato was probably the most famous person during the time of Christ. We even have two classical authors saying they are fed up having with having stories of his live being constantly recollected by everyone. Now how many biographies of his life now exist? One, by Plutarch who wrote it over a hundred years later! This is a very good indicator of that this argument from silence needs to be put to bed, not given the oxygen of media attention.

    Lets not be ignorant about this. These amateur skeptics of Jesus’ existence would have a field day producing books, blog posts, and websiteswith their amateur/home-spun research, and having their readers high-fiving them if it served their skeptical cause to turn their “methods” to question such ancient people and events’ existence – yet they think that historians are only wrong about this one figure. It is online amateur activism parading itself as reasoned scholarship and its enthusiastic reception in the skeptical community (which professes to stand for free-thinking and reason) should be a matter of deep concern because it highlights their ability to accept a nonsense argument merely because it suits their disposition to like it. That is the real story here.

    The fact that Jesus is talked about by a dozen non-Christian writers within a hundred years of his life is remarkable- astounding in fact. But this is a narrative that is sidelined, and just as illegitimately so as when -and apologies to some of my friends- creationists use a bogus “show me the missing links” argument to comfort, but ultimately deceive, their followers. Both are reprehensible, and both show complete ignorance of how to properly approach, understand, and responsibly interact with the field.

    (Additionally, a recent find in the Talmud a leading British expert on it (see here and here) and also new scholarship on Mara bar Serapion do provide evidence that Jesus was talked about during, or immediately after his lifetime; but, well, that is perhaps a discussion that can wait for another day…)

    • Wordy. Thanks. But I’m still not convinced. How is the fable of Jesus not just a story or a combination of tall tales that were combined into a haphazardly written book full of homophobia, racism, and pro-slavery dogma?

      • CTimeline

        Read any standard or introductory book on the origin of the Gospels or the Jesus tradition to find out. Bart Ehrman’s latest book is a good starting point. There are dozens and dozens of secular historians of early Christianity- none of them (at least any who teach at a University) agrees with the picture so amateuristically and error laced depicted above. It is for you to decide if the above nonsense should remain on your website.

        The New Testament is not pro-slavery (nor is it con-slavery), and racism?? The New Testament argues that we should not consider race to be important, and that rather than believe God has one people (Jews) it is accessible to every race. See especially Galatians and Romans. What are you possibly referring to?

        • You can’t have it both ways. You either accept all of it (new and old testaments) or none of it. Cherry picking gospels destroys your credibility.

          • CTimeline

            That is a completely ahistorical way of considering sources. All historical documents are problematic. Scholars look at sources and see who made them, how they made them, what audience they are writing to, their biases, embellishments etc. This is what happens with the Gospels, Philo of Alexandria, Josephus, Tacitus, and has occurred over the past 150-200 years. All are embellished, contain mythical elements etc. It is patently ludicrous to be of the opinion either the Gospels or other historical documents are all true or all false. Most secular scholars think that the Gospels show how Jesus was a failed apocalytic teacher, for example.

            Whatever your opinion on this- the above article is nonsense. If you want to make a case that Jesus did not exist fine. But putting up the illusory ravings of someone who has evidently no exposure to historical sources or scholarship and freely makes up facts surely is not worthy of your website. What next? 10 reasons that 9/11 was a government job, or 10 reasons that the world is flat and all experts are wrong authored by unemployed conspiracy theorists sitting in a shack somewhere? Great…

            • Now you’re ignoring my comment and attempting to reframe. Denied. Address the substance of my argument that you are cherry picking verses.

              • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                I AM SURE YOU KNOW IT IS TYPICAL OF THE RELIGIOUS TO BOTH DENY AND/OR IGNORE ANY COMMENTS, OR FACTS THEY DO NOT LIKE. THEY ALSO EXPECT US TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS WHILE VERY SELDOM, IF EVER ANSWERING OURS.

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              AS MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER LAY CHRISTIANS, PLUS THE OVER 600 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS, WHO ARE NOW ALL ATHEISTS AND MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT, WOULD AGREE WITH, YOUR COMMENTS ARE SPOKEN LIKE THE POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN YOU ARE.

              • CTimeline

                Neil, I am not a Christian. I am an ancient history major. This has nothing to do with whether Christianity is true or not, or has historical difficulties (it does- lots of them actually).

                But apparently if some presents evidence that the whole of Christianity was faked by the Beatles or something as bonkers as that, and someone comments on why that cannot be true you will argue “As multi-millions of former lay-Christians… spoken like a poor deluded religious robot”. Great. What a rational person you are.

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  FIRST,

                  “When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.”

                  James Whitcomb Riley

                  SECOND, SO CHILD, IF YOU SAY THE SAME THINGS A TYPICAL PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN SAYS, DO NOT BLAME OTHERS IF THEY ASSUME YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.
                  THIRD, THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS BASED ON JESUS, AND AS JESUS NEVER EXISTED, MUCH LESS DID THE THINGS HE WAS REPORTED TO HAVE DONE, THEN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS A TOTAL CON JOB! AND THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH THOSE WHO ARE NOT PROGRAMMED INTO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION AND WHO ARE TRULY KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE KNOW.

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS BASED ON JESUS BEING A REAL PERSON. ————————————————————————————————————————–AS THERE IS NO, NONE, ZERO SECULAR PROOF JESUS WAS ANY MORE REAL THAN WERE THE MANY SAVIORS BEFORE HIM,————————————————————————————————————–SAVIORS WHO WERE BORN OF VIRGINS, BORN AROUND DEC 22, HAD THEIR OWN STAR AND THREE WISE MEN AT THEIR BIRTH, WERE KILLED, AND THEN CAME BACK TO LIFE IN THREE DAYS. THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS A TOTAL CON JOB.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          IN THE N.T., JC SAYS “EVERY” THING IN THE O.T. IS TRUE AND SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS JUST A BUNCH OF CHILDISH MYTHS BELIEVED BY THOSE RAISED AND PROGRAMMED TO BELIEVE THOSE MYTHS ARE TRUE.

    • Learn to think critically.

      • CTimeline

        Listland- the remarks above show that listland has been taken in by a fraud. If you want to publish against religion, fine. There is a lot you can write about. Hundreds of questions can be made of Christianity and its early history. For example, the New Testament’s use of the Old, the contradictions between Gospel accounts, the changing theological teachings etc. But if you are against Christianity and want a list about it- don’t ask or accept what is the scholarly equivalent of asking a creationist to describe biology, or a global warming denier to explain weather patterns etc.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          FYI YOU PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT ,
          NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON LIVING WHERE AND WHEN JESUS WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE ALL THESE VERY NEWSWORTHY THINGS HAPPEN, AND WHO WERE REPORTING ON THE NEWS OF THE DAY EVER REPORTED ONE WORD OF IT.

          THAT IS NO ONE! NONE! ZERO!

          IT WOULD BE LIKE 9-11 HAPPENING AND NO ONE REPORTED IT!

          I MEAN A GUY WHO GETS CRUSIFIED ON A CROSS WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE SEEING IT AND THE THIS GUY COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD AND NOT ONE PERSON REPORTS IT?

          GIVE ME A BREAK!

          THEREFORE, IT DID NOT HAPPEN! PERIOD! END OF STORY.

          OF COURSE ALL THE POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIANS WILL DO WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO, AND THAT IS DENY BOTH FACT AND LOGIC.

          AND ALSO OF COURSE, THE MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOW ATHEISTS, AND INCLIDING THE OVER 700 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT WHO ARE ALSO NOW ATHEISTS, WILL AGREE WITH ME AS THEY HAVE SUCCESSFULY DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES

          • CTimeline

            How many people recorded the 9/11 of antiquity? The volcanic eruption of mount Vesuvius and the destruction of Pompeii?

  • CTimeline

    On your point regarding Paul not knowing and saying anything about the historical Jesus, again this is a frequent claim on nonsense websites, but it is not true. You are repeating pseudo-history, that surely has no place being promoted on a website such as this. The following references can be found within Pauline literature:

    Gal 3:16 — Jesus was born a Jew
    Gal 4:4 — Jesus lived under Jewish Law
    Rom 1:3 — Jesus was from the house of David
    1 Cor 9:5 — Jesus had brothers
    1 Cor 15:7 — One of his brothers was James
    1 Cor 15:7 — Jesus had twelve disciples
    1 Cor 15:7 — Some of Jesus’ disciples had wives
    2 Cor 8:9 — Jesus was poor
    Phil 2:5 — Jesus was a servant who acted with humility
    2 Cor 10:1 — Jesus acted with meekness and gentleness
    Rom 15:3 — Jesus didn’t act on his own behalf, but was accused by others
    1 Cor 5:7 — Paul alludes to the Passion week
    Rom 6:6 — Jesus was crucified
    1 Thes 2:14-15 — Jesus crucifixion was brought on by Jewish instigation
    Rom 4:25 — Paul speaks of Jesus’ death
    Rom 6:4, 8:29; Col. 2:12 — Paul talks about the nature of the resurrection.

    Paul’s knowledge of Jesus’s teachings:

    1 Cor 7:10-11 — About divorce and remarriage
    1 Cor 9:14 — Ministers being paid wages
    Rom 13:6-7 — Paying taxes
    Rom 13:9 — We are to love our neighbors as ourselves
    Rom 14:14 — Ceremonial cleanliness
    1 Thes 4:15 — Paul said to be vigilant in light of Jesus’ second coming
    1 Thes 5:2-11 — The second coming would be like the thief in the night
    1 Cor 7: 10;9:14;11:23-25 — Paul refers to Jesus’ words.

    • Abasi

      im not arguing with you about whether or not jesus really lived in fact chritianity is based solely on faith and nothing should deter you from your faith however nothing you have listed in this list refuted anything that was said in this article

      • CTimeline

        I didn’t just read the captions; you said “Indeed he makes practically no references to an earthly life for Jesus instead “!!

        The whole article is littered with factual errors and distortions. Probably, I imagine not out of dishonesty on your part- but you have depended upon spurious sources. Aside from reference to non-existence manuscripts from Herod, Pilate, military reports etc… You say there are gospels found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. No there are not. Check any records of the manuscripts that have been found at Qumran. Again you have just made this up. Your points regarding the earthquake, early Gospel dates, Nazareth etc… all show the same blatant disregard to properly consider if what you are repeating is verifiable, or is sheer nonsense.

        • Did Paul know Jesus? Personally?

          • CTimeline

            No.

            • Wow.

              • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                HE IS ONE PROGRAMMED PUPPY!

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              TOO BAD YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE A SINGLE SHRED OF SECULAR PROOF.

              • CTimeline

                There is plenty of secular evidence, far far more than we would expect for his life, but I suppose because it dates to a few decades after Jesus’ life you have been told by some amateur non-historians not accept it. But are historians wrong? Is the fact that there are no contemporary references to Jesus notable — suspicious even? Well, you should realize that any person in antiquity who would likely not be recorded in physical assets such as coins, epigraphs (etc.), that we are dependent upon literary documents to know about their existence. These are extremely rare from antiquity. We probably have less than .001% of all literature from Classical period currently extant. Apart from a few examples, and most of these emerge from specific events such as the Athenian-Spartan conflict, the Second Punic War, or the upheavals during the fall of the Roman Republic. There is a significant lack of contemporary reference materials from Classical history. We have almost nothing written from the time about dozens of Roman Emperors who ruled one of the largest and most literate societies pre-enlightenment Europe. We only have written sources regarding some of the most renowned generals, such as Scipio (who saved Rome from being destroyed by the Carthaginians), decades after their lives. Perhaps we might suggest that he didn’t exist too? Great philosophers who mingled with Emperors, politicians, and business men, who would have had infinitely more influence (and connections with literate people) than an itinerant Jewish preacher in rural Palestine. How much do we know about them from the time of their lives? Practically nothing.

                People like the founders of Stoicism and Epicureanism; their writings were part of every educated Romans’ libraries and had followers (like Christianity) in every major city. So there must be thousands of copies of their writings? No. Apart from three letters of Epicurus almost nothing. Alexander the Great who conquered the whole known world. Well, we surely must have thousands of contemporary reports about him. Nope. We can fit it on about half a page of A4. Consider the “Loeb Classical Library” that has been published by Harvard University Press for over a hundred years. It translates and publishes all the major works from Classical Antiquity. Over 1,000 years of writing, during which time the West enjoyed its first Golden Age of literature. How large is this corpus of material? It can fit into just two bookcases (!)– and they are double the size they need to be: each volume supplies the Latin/Greek as well as an English translation.

                Read Professor Robert Garland’s “Celebrity in Antiquity: From Media Tarts to Tabloid Queens” and Graham Anderon’s “Sage, Saint and Sophist: Holy Men and Their Associates in the Early Roman Empire”, try to note down in a spreadsheet how close the extant records we have for apparently well-known people in antiquity are (including actors, philosophers, religious charismatics etc). Generally decades, normally over a hundred years after their lives, and they are almost always referenced in one source. Look at the Jewish historian Josephus’ works. He lists dozens of Jewish leaders who were equal, and in fact exceeded, Jesus in fame and importance during their lives. Who else records them? No one, just Josephus. (by the way no-one mentions Josephus, supposedly this BIG Jewish commander and then client of the Emperor himself, he must never have existed as well!).

                Want more? Okay. Forget football (or whatever sport the people in your country like the most). In antiquity the sport was chariot racing. Racing circuses were so widely attended that they would typically hold 20,000 spectators, and in bigger cities like Alexandria, Antioch, Carthage that number went up to around 100,000 people. In Rome that number swells to a remarkable 250,000 members of the crowd (by comparison the population of Jerusalem during Jesus’ lifetime was only around 40,000). The charioteers’ fan base was so fanatic that at their deaths people were even known throw themselves on their funeral pyres to commit suicide. So, lets take the most famous member of this most illustrious of groups- Caius Apuleius Diocles, a charioteer who surpassed all other charioteers. He was the Tiger Woods, or Cristiano Ronaldo of his day. In modern money he made around 15 billion dollars(!) in his lifetime. Well here we really must be on safe ground. With his number of adoring fans, it must be tedious for scholar of antiquity to catalogue the huge number of discussions, references, and allusions to him. Nope. Only one solitary inscription is a contemporary source. Everything else no longer exists.

                The destruction of Pompeii, a large city and its environs including Herculaneum, completely destroyed and tens of thousands of people, including high ranking political figures, vaporized by a volcanic eruption. An event that is probably comparable in terms of shock to 9/11, and one that just 250km from the Roman capital. This must be recorded EVERYWHERE. Only no. It isn’t. Only one source from near the the time talks about it. Yet advocates of Jesus mythicism complain that the fact that Herod’s orders to kill a dozen infants in a small provincial town not being recorded apparently “beggars belief”. No. It does not. Perhaps the explosion of Mt Vesuvius, and all the figures we mentioned above, must have been made up too- or perhaps people like these non-trained Jesus mythcist activists need a new argument, and skeptics and sensationalizing journalists need to start to reconsider who they have been electing to gain their knowledge of the ancient world and early Christian history from.

                One interesting exercise to show how ancient fame vis-a-vis ancient literary records works is to compare Jesus with Cato the Younger. Cato was probably the most famous person during the time of Christ. We even have two classical authors saying they are fed up having stories of his life being constantly recollected by everyone. Now how many biographies of his life now exist? One, by Plutarch who wrote it over a hundred years later! This is a very good indicator that this argument from silence needs to be put to bed, not given the oxygen of media attention.

                Let’s not be ignorant about this. Atheists would have a field day producing their self-published books, blog posts, plying journalists with their amateur/home-spun research, and having their readers high-fiving them if it served their skeptical cause to turn their “methods” to question such ancient people and events’ existence — yet they think that historians are only wrong about this one figure. It is online amateur activism parading itself as reasoned scholarship. Its enthusiastic reception in the skeptical community (which professes to stand for free-thinking and reason) should be a matter of deep concern, because it highlights their ability to accept a nonsense argument merely because it suits their disposition to like it. That is the real story here– not the supposed suspicious silence about Jesus.

                The fact that this Jewish Messiah figure is talked about by a dozen non-Christian writers within a hundred years of his life is remarkable- unprecedented really. But this is a narrative that is sidelined, and just as illegitimately so as when some creationists can use bogus arguments to comfort, but ultimately deceive, their followers. Both are reprehensible, and both show complete ignorance of how to properly approach, understand, and responsibly interact with the field.

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  TALK IS CHEAP! PROVIDE IT!

                  • CTimeline

                    You really do not understand do you- I. AM. NOT. A. CHRISTIAN. I. AM. JUST. AN. ANCIENT. HISTORY. GRADUATE.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      I FULLY UNDERSTAND YOU KEEP SAYING SO. —————————————————————————————————ONLY YOUR WORDS PROVE YOU ARE, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, A CHRISTIAN, AND IF YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE YOU ARE NOT,, YOU ARE LYING TO YOURSELF.

                    • CTimeline

                      So basically unless I follow rank amateur nonsense, and accept the distortions of this article I must be a Christian? Are you really suggesting that unless a person accepts every stupid argument an atheist makes they must secretly be a Christian?

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      FIRST CHILD, YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW MUCH I HAVE STUDIED THIS SUBJECT, ——————————–SECOND, PROVE THERE ARE DISTORTIONS IN THE ARTICLE. ————— THIRD, THOSE WHO SAY THE EXACTLY WHAT CHRISTIANS SAY, AND WHO DENY FACTS LIKE THEY DO ARE, MAY AS WELL BE ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES A CHSISTIAN. – ——- FORTH, IF YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN, WHAT ARE YOU AS LIKE IT OR NOT, YOU ARE EITHER A THEIST, OR AN ATHEIST.———————————————————-F IFTH, WILL YOU BOTH SWEAR ON A BIBLE AND TAKE AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT LIE DETECTION TESTS, AND PASS THEM, YOU WERE NEVER, AT ANY TIME, TAUGHT THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION WAS TRUE?

                    • CTimeline

                      I am a firm agnostic and have quite an enviable selection of atheist and agnostic writings in my bookcases.

                      I listed the silly mistakes in this article- there are no manuscripts from Herod, Pilate there are no gospels in the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. In your extensive study on this topic you will know that, and see how much dross is in this article. It does a poor job to serve the atheist cause because it gives Christians an easy way out: they just highlight the nonsense in the article and proceed on their way. That really cannot be denied. But you have just insulted and poured hatred out against people who highlighting that- why?

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN AND YET YOUR WORDS AND ACTIONS CLEARLY INDICATE YOU ARE. NON-CHRISTIANS DO SAY I HAVE, “poured hatred out” WHEN I STATE FACTS. YOU ALSO PULL THE TYPICAL CHRISTIAN CRAP OF EXPECTING OTHERS TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS WHEN THEY DO NOT ANSWER MINE.

                    • CTimeline

                      There are no documents from Herod or Pontus Pilate, there are no gospels in the Dead Sea Scrolls.This article is filled with factual errors isn’t it? There are many important arguments that question Christianity- this article is not one of them. I merely pointed that out, and you have tried to consistently say I am a Christian. You have been wrong and should never have tried to enter a discussion with me. Ply your attempts to inflate your ego by shouting at people on the internet somewhere else.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      ALSO IT SEEMS YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE DEFINATONS OF THE WORDS “BELIEVE” AND “KNOW” ARE. SO PAY ATTENTION. ——————————————————————————————————————————– A PERSON WHO DOES NOT “KNOW” IF THERE ARE ANY GODS OR NOT IS AN “AGNOSTIC”. ————————————————————————————————————–THOSE WHO “BELIEVE” IN GODS ARE “THEISTS”.———————————————————————————————————————————————–THOSE WHO NOT”BELIEVE” IN GODS ARE “ATHEISTS”. ——————————————————————————————————————————————- –AND I AM, AS ARE MANY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT MANY MILLIIONS, OF THE MORE INFORMED, LOGICAL INTELLIGENT & RATIONAL, “AGNOSTIC ATHEISTS”

                    • CTimeline

                      You have to outline where in my reply I did not give an accurate portrayal of what an agnostic is. Did you actually read what I wrote?

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      LOOK CHILD, AS YOU REPEATEDLY REFUSE TO ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION, I AM DONE WITH YOU.

                    • CTimeline

                      What question? Just admit that you were wrong to try to respond to me. In your passion to shout at Christians you misread the article, and you misread my response.

                      I feel very sorry that you have such an unpleasant unfulfilled life that you spend your time trying to inflate your ego by shouting at people in this unrational, insulting way. Whatever hurt you have had in your life, whatever feelings of inadequacy it does not excuse you. Googling your name I see many atheists have warned and tried to help you change. Please try.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      LOOK YOU STUPID JERK, MANY WOULD BE PLEASED TO HAVE LIVED THE LIFE OF EXCITEMENT AND ADVENTURE I HAVE! AND YOU PUKE, ARE YOU WELL KNOWN FOR ALWAYS TELLING THE TRUTH AS I AM? FOR ALWAYS HELPING OTHERS AS I AM? ————————————————————————————————————————————————–HAVE YOU EVER SAVED ANY LIVES AS I HAVED? —— HAVE YOU EVER ONCE BEEN A REAL HERO BY PLACING YOURSELF IN DANGER OF PHYSICAL INJURY AND DEATH AS I HAVE DONE MANY TIMES? ——————————————————————————————————SO PISS OFF YOU BAG OF CRAP!

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      LIAR. MANY ATHEISTS HAVE NOT AND THE ONES WHO HAVE, ARE WRONG. THERE ARE, ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE. HUNDREDS OF MOSTLY ATHEISTS WHO LIKE ME, RESPECT ME AND WHAT I SAY. I HAVE BEEN CALLED, “BRILLIANT”, “TEACHER”, “”GURU” AND “SPOCK”
                      I HAVE BEEN PRAISED FOR MY INTELLIGENCE, MY USE OF LOGIC AND MY ABILITY TO EXPRESS MY VIEWS CLEARLY. SO PISS OFF

          • Phil Spomer

            Look up “road to Damascus”.

          • Cl

            Dont sweat it, youre more right than wrong, by a longshot. Apologists are going to try and “correct” you, but reality is still reality, and still, there is no God/Jesus.

            • Yeah of course. My point was that even assuming “their” facts were true Paul and Jesus never broke bread or had fun turning water into wine together.

    • You know you’re being deceived. Right? Religion is the answer to only one question, “who is gullible enough to believe anything we tell them without any reasonable evidence?”

      • CTimeline

        Listland, this is about history and what historians think. There are hundreds of non-Christian historians who study early Christianity, none of them, literally none of them, thinks Jesus did not exist. Do not turn this into talking about whether the broader topic of whether religion is correct. I do not believe that the Emperor Titus was a god. The Romans did. But apparently if some bogus fraud sent you a list saying 10 reasons why Titus never existed you would accept it, and if anyone challenge this you would respond: “You know you’re being deceived. Right? Religion is the answer to only one question, “who is gullible enough to believe anything we tell them without any reasonable evidence?”” You do not believe in religion? Fine, that doesn’t mean you should accept whatever nonsense and factual errors some raving pseudo-scholar sends you.

        If this listland page about Jesus stays online really people should be warned about just what sort of organisation this is and the utter disregard it has for its readers and what it publishes. Thankfully have a prominent public engagement role in ancient history studies. Listland (along with your ravings responding to people who point out such errors) should be made public and students and educators warned through usual routes.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          PROVING HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE OF THE FACTS. AND ALL YOU PROVE IS YOU ARE SO PROGRAMMED YOU DENY ANY FACTS YOU DO NOT LIKE.

          • CTimeline

            Okay, why do you say that?

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              There are hundreds of non-Christian historians who study early Christianity, none of them, literally none of them, thinks Jesus did not exist.

              “LITERALLY NONE” IS WRONG AND YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE ONE SECULAR SOUCE WHO LIVED WHERE JESUS SUPPOSEDLY LIVE AT THE TIME WHEN JESUS SUPPOSEDLY LIVE WHO SAID ONE WORD ABOUT A GUY WHO SUPPOSEDLY DID ALL OF THE NEWS WORTHY THINGS JESUS AND THE REST OF THEM SUPPOSEDLY DID.———————————————————————————————————–
              THIS FACT ALONE PROVES JESUS DID NOT EXIST!
              ————————————————————————————-IT PROVES JESUS WAS, JUST LIKE HE WAS TREATED FOR THE FIRST 300 SOME YEARS OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, A FICTIONAL PERSON. HE WAS NOT TREATED AS. BEING REAL UNTIL THE CHRISTIANS GOT PISSED AT THE PAGANS, WHO SUPPOSEDLY HAD BECOME CHRISTIANS SO THEY COULD STOP BEING SLAVES, BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL CELEBRATING PAGAN HOLIDAYS.
              ———————————————————————————SO THE CHRISTIANS DECIDED TO TAKE OVER THE PAGAN HOLIDAY BY CELEBRATING JC’S SUPPOSED BIRTHDAY. THIS WHEN JC WAS SOPPOSEDLY BORN IN, I THINK, MARCH AND NOT DEC.

      • CTimeline

        Why are you happy to have a page that is repeatedly factually wrong on your website? If you think there are reasons why historians are wrong to believe Jesus existed fine- pick someone else to write an article. Not some amateur who doesn’t know what he is writing about.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          ANYONE WHO SAYS WHAT LISTLAND HAS PRESENTED IS NOT TRUE IS A TYPICAL FACT DENYING PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN. AND HIS WORDS PROVE THE POINT AS ANY REAL UNBIASED RESEARCHER KNOWS EVERYTHING LISTLAND STATED IS FACTUALLY TRUE!

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        YOU SHOULD GIVE THE RELIGIOUS A BREAK BECAUSE NEARLY EVERY SINGLE RELIGIOUS PERSON BELIEVES BECAUSE THEY WERE, AS BABIES CHILDREN AND TEENS, PROGRAMMED TO BELIEVE IN WHAT EVER RELIGION AND GOD OR GODS, THOSE WHO RAISED THEM BELIEVED IN. ————————————- AND IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOU.

  • ImRike

    Under reason 7 above, you wrote:

    “The Gospel of Mark, although the second in the New Testament, was the
    first to be written, probably around 70AD while the gospel of John was
    written in around 90BC.”
    You might want to change this last date to 90AD.

  • Thomas Goodnow

    With the exception of the last two (which are just incorrect, though they admittedly would’ve been seen as correct 100 years ago), they could all be equally said of Alexander the Great and dozens of other historical figures.
    The number of PhDs who are on the record as Young Earth Creationists or climate-change deniers number in the 1000s. The number of PhDs who think Jesus didn’t exist can be easily counted of the fingers of one hand (two, if you include debatable credentials). If you’re going the “Jesus never existed” route, you’ll have good company along with moon-landing hoaxers and 9/11 conspiracy theorists. But this is listverse, and I presume no one comes here for the scholarship.

    • MMaximuSS1975

      Um. No. There’s more evidence for every other historical figure but Jesus. Even the already debunked Alexander the Great excuse.

      Sorry, the most PhDs excuse is a failure here to. Most of those PhDs are Christian Theologians or Historians. What do you seriously think they’re gonna say?

      Christian Theology uses insanely low standards for claiming historical veracity. The simple fact is when you add up the evidence, you have nothing but the Bible, and Christian Forgeries. The evidence from every other source outside of the religion either contradicts the narrative or shows no support for it.

      It’s actually kind of a pointless discussion anyway. Even if a Jesus like figure really did exist, he was no divine being. No supernatural miracle worker, and no son of any God. A mere mortal that had a legend invented around him at best. Either way the biblical story never, ever happened. Pure fiction.

      • Thomas Goodnow

        I will look again into the Alexander the Great documentation; wasn’t aware it had been debunked, but I haven’t looked at it in detail in several years.

        As for the PhDs, I’m not sure that the ideological commitments of the scholar is relevant: do we discount a mathematician because she really likes non-Euclidean geometry, or the opinions of a political scientist because he votes Democrat? The arguments should be addressed on their merit, not their adherents, but when you have such an overwhelming opinion, it is at least a call to due diligence if you go against it (and, alas, most skeptic haven’t done this: the interwebs meme-dreck is strong in this area, as you’ve no doubt encountered). I know little about climate science, but am hesitant to become a climate-change-denier merely because the consensus is so great. In NT scholarship in particular, you have an enormous range of opinions, from Jesus-as-God-incarnate to Jesus as a cynic sage or reform rabbi whose story was mythologized. There’s not a lot of pressure to conform to some pietistic model, obviously at seminaries like Duke or Fuller or Princeton, but even less at secular institutions. Indeed, being non-traditional in your interpretation of Jesus is nearly required to teach at some (such as UNC, Harvard or Virginia Theo). I believe Bart Ehrman (UNC) has even written a rather exasperated sounding book about the whole subject.

        As for your last paragraph, I agree: there are some reasonable (though unconvincing) reasons to be a skeptic, such as the inferential problem of evil. Christ-mything just doesn’t happen to be one of them, and it makes skeptics look like tin-foil-hatters when they use it. But hey, it’s a free country (so far!).

        • Grow up.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            HE CAN’T AS HIS PROGRAMMING IS STRONG.

    • Do you really think some guys went to the Moon, 230,000 miles away from Earth, in the 60’s? I am so surprised people believe that story. It’s even crazier, yet so many people do believe it, also people think 110 floors of steel can turn to powder and blow away in 10 seconds.

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        I DO NOT THINK THEY DID, I KNOW THEY DID. I ALSO KNOW YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE WHO DO NOT CARE ABOUT FACTS OR LOGIC OR PROOF AS THEY INTERFER WITH YOUR CLUELESS UNSUBSTATUATED VIEWS.

        • What are you doing up at 4:00 AM on the Internet shouting at people for, Neil, had one too many?

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            FIRST, THE WRITTEN WORD MAKE NO SOUND MUCH LESS VA LOUD ONE. ——— SECOND. I HAVE NOT HAD A DRINK WITH ALCOHOL IN IT SINCE AUG. 20, 1983 WHEN I WAS IN THE SHICK SHADEL HOSPITALS AVERISON PROGRAM WHICH SAVED MY THEN ALCOHLIC LIFE. NOR DO I TAKE ANY DRUGS OTHER THAN OCCASSIONAL ADVIL. ————————————————————————————- I AM UP LATE ALL THE TIME AS IT HOW MY BODY CLOCK WORKS. AS I AM 81 AND RETIRED, IT WORKS FOR ME.

            • OH OK, I UNDERSTAND NEIL, IN THAT CASE I AM HAPPY FOR YOU, BEING 81 YEARS OLD AND ON THE INTERNET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT FIGHTING WITH PEOPLE, YOU’RE COOL, KEEP ON DOING WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND HAVE FUN!

              • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                HI SUGAR THIEF, DUE MY LIVING IN MORE PLACES, HAVING MORE PROFESSIONS AND DOING MORE DIFFERENT TYPES OF THING, I AM MUCH MORE GENERALLY EXPERIENCED AND MORE GENERALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN ARE MOST MY AGE, ————————————————————————————————————————————-WHILE WHAT I KNOW, WHEN COMPARED TO WHAT THERE IS TO KNOW, IS NOT MUCH, IT IS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT MOST KNOW, THUS I ATTEPT TO EDUCATE OTHERS, ——————————————————————————————————————-IF YOU CARE TO YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT NEILC@THEXYZ.NET, ALSO, I CAN SEND YOU A LIST OF MANY REALLY GREAT ATHEIST VIDEOS MADE BY MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

              • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                THANK YOU! 🙂

    • woad2112

      No…we have records of other people who were alive when Alexander was alive that mention hom by name. We also have other documents frim governmental records that mention him…so no, you are incorrect on this.

      • Thomas Goodnow

        I’d have to see references. We do have mention of people alive at the time of Alexander, but I’m not sure how this is any different from people alive at the time of Jesus (Caiaphas and Pilate, minimally). As for governmental records, are you referring to inscriptions? We do have some of those for Alexander, though it’s hard to make a case based on this, as the documentary evidence we have for Jesus is so much better, and it would hardly be surprising to lack epigraphic evidence for Jesus; we don’t have any for anyone from that time and place except Pilate. As many (e.g. Bauckham, Licona, NT Wright) have pointed out, the fact that we know so much about a minimally literate crucified 1st century Galilean rebel with minimal following and no military is the most surprising thing of all. The best argument for Jesus-mythicism is probably this: it’s too improbable not to be made up. This does leave you with the problem of explaining how Christianity all got started, of course; recourse to hallucinogenic mushrooms and Flavian-family failed conspiracies aren’t taken too seriously outside of the interwebs.

        • Laronthedude

          Well written argument. This just my two cents, so take it with a grain of salt. Humans have an insatiable curiosity for exploration and discovery. To me religion, mysticism, philosophy and alchemy were the first evolutionary steps toward our current Sciences. The creation of mystical, heroic, and omnipotent entities with phenomenal abilities and skills was a way for our ancestors to describe, define, and categorize our universe. Hallucinogenic organisms might have played a role in the creation of said entities, and I would assert it is not that unlikely given the empirical data we have of the effects of most substances our ancestors would have had access to. Unlike conspiracy theorists I tend to think that if hallucinogenic organisms played a role it was probably very small; humans are known to have abstract imaginations. (:

        • Who are these religious nuts

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            FIRST, THEY ARE NOT NUTS. ——– SECOND, WHAT THEY ARE IS PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS WHO HAVE NO CLUE THEY WERE EVER PROGRAMMED IN THE FIRST PLACE, MUCH LESS HOW PROGRAMMED THEY STILL ARE. SO WHAT WE SHOULD DO, IS ATTEMPT TO EDUCATE THEM AS MUCH AS WE CAN. ————————————————————————————————————–THIRD, AS THERE ARE NOW MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER LAY CHRISTIANS, AND OVER 600 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS, WHO ARE NOW ALL ATHEISTS AND MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT, WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS. ————————————————————————————————————————-AND THOSE WHO TRULLY WISH TO EDUCATE THEM SHOULD BOTH JOIN AND SUPPORT ATHEIST ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE ONE I HELPED FOUND IN 1982, “ATHEISTS UNITED”. OR LARGER ONES AND MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE ONES LIKE THE “FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION.” — AND “AMERICAN ATHEISTS”

    • Jesus is fake. Just like god.

    • And no Santa too.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      ANY WHO THINK JESUS ACTUALY EXISTED ONLY PROVE THEY WERE, AS BABIES, CHILDREN AND TEENS PROGRAMMED TO BELIEVE THAT BS AND THEY STILL BELIEVE IT.

      • Thomas Goodnow

        I wasn’t raised a Christian, but I certainly appreciate that this may be true for many people. It risks falling into a genetic fallacy in any case (how a person came to believe something is not relevant to its veracity), but bias is certainly an ongoing problem.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          FIRST, THERE IS NO “MAY” ABOUT IT.
          SECOND, ANY ONE WHO IS EVEN SLIGHTLY LOGICAL REALIZES THE ONLY REASON THEY BELIEVE IN THE RELIGION AND THE GOD, OR GODS, THEY DO IS BECAUSE OF WHO RAISED THEM.——————————————————————————————-
          “GIVE ME A CHILD UNTIL THE AGE OF SIX AND THEY ARE MINE FOREVER” —————————————————————————————————————–
          THIS HOLDS MOSTLY TRUE FOR ALL RELIGIONS. AND FOR MOST, THEIR PROGRAMMING IS SO STRONG, THEY REMAIN BELIEVERS ALL OF THEIR LIVES. —————————————————————————————————————————————–
          YET, AS THE MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER LAY CHRISTIANS AND THE OVER 600 MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT, (WHO ARE ALL FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS) ARE NOW ATHEISTS AND
          THE MILLIONS OF OTHER FORMER MEMBERS OF OTHER RELIGIONS PROVE, THE PROGRAMMING DOES NOT WORK ON ALL. ————————————————————————————————————–
          FACTS ARE MOST OF AMERICA’S ESTIMATED 35,000,000 ATHEISTS WERE ONCE CHRISTIANS. ONLY THEY FOUND, THE TRUTH REALLY DOES SET ON FREE.

          • Thomas Goodnow

            Well, I guess I’m among the illogically insane 😉
            Kinda does leave you with the problem of how it all got off the ground: there was a time in history when there were no Christian parents nor Christian institutions to indoctrinate anyone.
            And who has a greater opportunity to choose rationally: a Christian raised in a secular environment, or a atheist/skeptic raised in an atheist/skeptic society? It seems as though only the former has two “live” options. The latter is just “going with the flow”, and charges of indoctrination and brainwashing turn around to bite their skeptic masters; or would you argue that it is impossible to indoctrinate someone into an atheist/skeptic worldview? Is it because atheists are inherently more logical, reasonable, rational and realistic than theists, by definition? If so, this makes perfect sense (even if it flies in the face of actual data).

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      PLEASE SEE ABOVE

  • More demons!? This can’t be a coincidence.

    • DEMON KING 666 HELLFIRE 666

      Wait until you end up in hellfire, that won’t be a coincidence.

      • Hellfire? Again? Remember no cursing people or List Land with hellfire. This violates our terms of use.

        Thanks for reading.

        • DEMON KING 666 HELLFIRE 666

          Lol “violates our terms of use”, well it shouldn’t because there is hellfire and I have seen people being tormented by fire and brimstone. I’m not a Christian I’m a Satanist but the Christians are partially right about hell. So I can agree with them on some things, so what are you going to say when you are burning in hell and demons are torturing you? “Oh I should have known”, lol but it would be too late, no god will be able to save you once your there. It is Satan’s domain.

      • Jesus sucked gay penis

        Oh Noes!!! LOL

  • Robert James Robinson

    There is also another point that most theists and atheists alike seem to not be aware of in the attempt to prove the existence of Jesus Christ. If we look at historical figures we have documents from contemporaries on the exploits of said figure. Now let’s just say at least one of the gospels is a contemporary account (for our purposes we still wouldn’t know if it was fabricated or not).

    So, we have a contemporary account of some guy going around ancient Palestine, ministering and performing magic tricks and generally causing the people in charge a lot of grief.

    Now, in the gospels, all 4 of them mind you, they claim that Christ made enemies and quite a few in both the Pharisees and the local Roman government. Surely among this collection of scholars, someone would have written a critique of this Christ. Every historical figure we can prove existed has critics and enemies that were on the wrong side of said individual whether they were wrong about them or not. With Christ, we only have documents that were praising how great he was or at worst indifferent (I’m talking to you Josephus). Not one document from even close to that time period of contemporary accounts talks about this “mad bugger” causing political strife in the Jewish quarter of Palestine.

    Yet, Caeser, Alexander the Great and even Plato and Aristotle had their contemporary critics… Now that is not to say that there’s no way Christ ever existed, but the lack of evidence from his critics makes it highly questionable.

    • woad2112

      No…we dont…read the first reason in this article…it addresses this. We have the records of all of the big names in the Jesus story, and not a single mention of Jesus or anyone even resembling him in their records.

      • The thing which can’t be refuted is simply this; The Gospels were written by very religious men–JEWISH MEN THAT DIDN’T LIE NOR FABRICATE STORIES–accordingly, we have 25000 fragments of the original manuscripts of the New Testament and 5000 copy-manuscripts. Christianity is real; belief is real; Christ is living and i hear from Him daily; I personally am a very religious man and i don’t lie nor exaggerate, nor imagine His presence daily. I believe as the New Testament teaches, That He who has the Son of God has life, and He who believes not is condemned already–thus unbelievers need to repent and “Kiss the Son” (worship). No they don’t need to kiss Israel–nor do they need to kiss the imaginary “pure,” but the Son of God–Jesus Christ–God Almighty in human flesh–He is the one who has gathered the wind in His fists–the one who has taken all the water of the Earth and made a garment–HE ALONE IS THE CREATOR-REDEEMER–the manifested right ARM of YAHWEH in the flesh.

        • antiheros

          ‘’The Gospels were written by very religious men–JEWISH MEN THAT DIDN’T LIE NOR FABRICATE STORIES’’

          It is widely accepted that the Gospels were written by 2nd generation educated Greek Christians. Mark for example clearly was neither a witness nor a Jew his blatant mistakes concerning the geography of Israel and ignorance of Judaism leads to the conclusion that the author of this Gospel probably never even set foot in the Holy Land. Matthew and Luke largely base their own narrative on Mark which leads to the conclusion that none were witnesses to the events they were narrating. Matthew tries to correct all the mistakes of Mark and also asserts his version of Jesus has fulfilled various prophesies. Matthew quotes directly from the Septuagint so he is no doubt a Greek Christian but Matthew also interprets some of his source material wrong, like when he has Jesus riding two donkeys.

          ,’’ we have 25000 fragments of the original manuscripts of the New Testament and 5000 copy-manuscripts.’’

          Over 94% of the existing manuscripts date to the 8th century and after. What we do know though is that these manuscripts are errant and have been edited over the years. Most of the most famous stories of the Gospels are not part of the older texts and later additions by unknown Christians scribes. There is also about a 180 gap from the time the originals were written where we have almost nothing. So let’s see no original copies, not even early copies, later errant copies with no way of knowing how the earliest complete Gospels compare to the originals. That is not strong evidence at all to say that anything contained in these copies is actually true or historical.

          ‘’Christianity is real; belief is real’’

          I agree no one is disputing that fact.

          ‘’Christ is living and I hear from Him daily’’

          I am not a psychiatrist (I’m just a Radom historian) but there is evidence that shows a strong link in between people who have divine visions and dreams of revelation and hearing from gods with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Paul’s visions and accounts of his conversion are compatible with these symptoms.

          ‘’I believe as the New Testament teaches’’

          That is your right, I’m more interested though in knowledge that belief. And from what we know about the exegesis of the New Testament is that is does not contain any writings by anyone who actually knew or met Jesus.

          ‘’Jesus Christ–God Almighty in human flesh-‘’

          The earliest evidence that we have from the Jewish Christians who followed the teachings of James The Just and were known as the Ebionites did not believe in Jesus’ divinity nor his pre-existence, they did not teach virgin birth or the atoning death. They did not believe in his physical resurrection and rejected the Apostle Paul as an apostate from the law. For the earliest Christians, Jesus was the Jewish messiah, the chosen one anointed by God to unite and lead the Jews back to the ways of Moses. The clashes between the Church of Jerusalem and Paul are document by Paul himself. And James and the other apostles tolerated Paul because he promised them money. The belief that Jesus was God in the flesh started to appear in the later Christian tradition in gentile Christian communities.

          ‘’HE ALONE IS THE CREATOR-REDEEMER–the manifested right ARM of YAHWEH in the flesh.’’

          Originally for the Israelites Yahweh was not the creator God. Jewish scholars agree that the Torah was written during the Babylonian exile (600BCE) and was not completed until the Assyrian retreat (400BCE). Before this time Israelites were polytheist and from the study of the Ugaritic texts we know that El was the supreme god and his wife was Ashera. They had seventy children like Anat, Shapsu, Astarte, Baal and Yahweh. According to the mythos. El divided the 70 nations among his children and Yahweh was given Israel. In between the 11th and 8th century B.C.E. Yahweh became associated with El and Ashera became his wife: several tablets dating from the 8th century BCE have shown this. It was not until the Babylonian exile that Yaweh was posited as the one true creator god when the Israelites were exposed to the religion of Zoroaster and amalgamated the metaphysical dualist principles of the Babylonian religion with the traditional Canaanite religious beliefs that formed the basis of Judaism which was not implemented until the reign of Josiah around 515 BCE. The actual history of the Bible is quite different than the narratives presented in its scriptures.

          “biblical history did not take place in either the particular era or the manner described. Some of the most famous events in the Bible clearly never happened at all.”

          ? Professor of archeology Israel Finkelstein, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts

          • Wrong–IT IS NOT WIDELY ACCEPTED; THAT IS MISCONSTRUING THE FACTS.

            • antiheros

              Actually it is, the original texts were written in Greek there is no doubt about this. The Gospel authors were educated and could write in Greek prose that of course is very far removed from Aramaic speaking lower class illiterate Jews. There is believed to have existed a Hebrew Gospel that was used by the Ebionites that predates the canonic scriptures, but that document is lost and since we know that the Church of Jerusalem did not preach most of the later dogmas of Christianity so it raises the question of what truth is actually contained in the later Gospel narratives.

              • None of the Gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in A.D. 70. This is significant because Jesus had prophesied concerning the temple when He said “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down,” (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:1, Mark 13:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70 when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and burned the temple. The gold in the temple melted down between the stone walls, and the Romans took the walls apart, stone by stone, to get the gold. Such an obvious fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy most likely would have been recorded as such by the Gospel writers who were fond of mentioning fulfillment of prophecy if they had been written after A.D. 70. Also, if the Gospels were fabrications of mythical events, then anything to bolster the Messianic claims–such as the destruction of the temple as Jesus said–would surely have been included. But, it was not included suggesting that the Gospels (at least Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were written before A.D. 70.

                • antiheros

                  Good job copying and pasting from Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry wbsite

                  There overwhelming consensus whether you like it or not in academia is that Mark was written somewhere around 70 ACE, Matthew 80-85ACE, Luke 95ACE and John anywhere from 100-115 ACE. This is what is taught in every theological seminary of every University in the World.

                  The question though is not the date of the authorship but the original language of the scriptures, and there is no dispute the original texts were written in Greek. Mark who is accepted with good reasons being the first of the synoptic Gospels was written outside of Israel by an author that clearly was not a Jew and from the blatant mistakes he make concerning the geography of Israel leads to the conclusion the author never even set foot in Israel. The author of Mark also did no know Judaism or basic Jewish customs. Jewish scholar Joseph Leidner writes : “From the evidence…the blunt conclusion emerges that the Gospel writers did not know the geography and customs of the Holy Land, and did not know Judaism itself. They were working with source material having nothing to do with historical data of any kind…

                  Matthew was also not Jewish as he quotes directly from the Septuagint, Luke of course was not a witness and use both Mark, Matthew and Josephus as sources for his narratives, The Gospel of John when analysing the literary style shows the Gospel as having at least 2 different authors. The evidence shows the Gospel of John as several texts stitched together to form one unique scripture.

                  Personally I find the Gospels fascinating and a good example of the rabbinic Hagadddah tradition using pesher techniques stories are rewritten to form a new scripture. Christian exegetes have long studied the gospels in light of Rabbinical techniques of biblical interpretation including allegory, midrash, and pesher. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls lent great impetus to the recognition of the widespread use among New Testament writers of the pesher technique whereby prophetic prooftexts for the divine preordination of recent of events was sought. Slower in coming has been the realization of the wide extent to which the stories comprising the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles are themselves the result of haggadic midrash upon stories from the Old Testament. the more recent scrutiny of John Dominic Crossan, Randel Helms, Dale and Patricia Miller, and Thomas L. Brodie has made it inescapably clear that virtually the entirety of the gospel narratives and much of the Acts are wholly the product of haggadic midrash upon previous scripture. Every single story contained in the Gospel can be accounted for as a copy of older scriptures.

                • Seriously?

                  • CGVULPE

                    i got add blocker just so i can read these crap articles and look at the comments and see you being salty af

                • Jesus sucked gay penis

                  Now now, isn’t stealing against one of your commandments? LOL

              • wTF!

          • I think there is a fine thread thru out the New Testament proving the accuracy of eschatology, which is the study and doctrine of the end times (my book Get Ready more than shows this); that Christ indeed will return for the faithful who name Christ as Savior. Maybe some of the unbelievers here will see this actually happen and convert. Keep in mind, that it is my position that men didn’t write the New Testament–that it was thought inspired by the Lord–and He–the Lord–has written or directed men to write the words in such a way that people would have to have faith. In other words, the Lord most intelligently has thrown a stumbling block here and there to test the faith of the one reading the Scripture–to see whether or not actual faith resides in the person reading the text. As Jesus said, my words are Spirit and life, and if anyone genuinely seeks the Lord–they will find His words are more than true.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            LOOK CHILDREN, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON LIVING WHERE AND WHEN JESUS WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE ALL THESE VERY NEWSWORTHY THINGS HAPPEN, AND WHO WERE REPORTING ON THE NEWS OF THE DAY EVER REPORTED ONE WORD OF IT.

            THAT IS NO ONE! NONE! ZERO!

            IT WOULD BE LIKE 9-11 HAPPENING AND NO ONE REPORTED IT!

            I MEAN A GUY WHO GETS CRUSIFIED ON A CROSS WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE SEEING IT AND THE THIS GUY COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD AND NOT ONE PERSON REPORTS IT?

            GIVE ME A BREAK!

            THEREFORE, IT DID NOT HAPPEN! PERIOD! END OF STORY.

            OF COURSE ALL THE POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIANS WILL DO WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO, AND THAT IS DENY BOTH FACT AND LOGIC.

            AND ALSO OF COURSE, THE MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOW ATHEISTS, AND INCLIDING THE OVER 700 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT WHO ARE ALSO NOW ATHEISTS, WILL AGREE WITH ME AS THEY HAVE SUCCESSFULY DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES

        • Edward Enz

          Its how you were raised sir. My wife is a Buddhist and believes deep down in her heart, it is the only true story. Isis also has a belief; we are all gullible and definitely a product of our environment. Your religion is your parents or where you were born. There are exceptions, but damn few.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            SO TRUE EDWARD, SO TRUE. ONLY SOME OF US ARE MANY TIMES LESS GULLIBLE THAN ARE MOST.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          YOU ARE A PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT WHO HAS NO CLUE YOU WERE, AS A BABY, CHILD AND TEEN TO BELIEVE YOUR RELIGION IS THE ONLY TRUE ONE AND YOUR GOD THE ONLY REAL ONE. NOR DO YOU HAVE A CLUE HOW PROGRAMMED YOU STILL ARE. I PITY YOU IN YOUR IGNORANCE.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          LOOK CHILDREN, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON LIVING WHERE AND WHEN JESUS WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE ALL THESE VERY NEWSWORTHY THINGS HAPPEN, AND WHO WERE REPORTING ON THE NEWS OF THE DAY EVER REPORTED ONE WORD OF IT.

          THAT IS NO ONE! NONE! ZERO!

          IT WOULD BE LIKE 9-11 HAPPENING AND NO ONE REPORTED IT!

          I MEAN A GUY WHO GETS CRUSIFIED ON A CROSS WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE SEEING IT AND THE THIS GUY COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD AND NOT ONE PERSON REPORTS IT?

          GIVE ME A BREAK!

          THEREFORE, IT DID NOT HAPPEN! PERIOD! END OF STORY.

          OF COURSE ALL THE POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIANS WILL DO WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO, AND THAT IS DENY BOTH FACT AND LOGIC.

          AND ALSO OF COURSE, THE MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOW ATHEISTS, AND INCLIDING THE OVER 700 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT WHO ARE ALSO NOW ATHEISTS, WILL AGREE WITH ME AS THEY HAVE SUCCESSFULY DE-PROGRAMMED THEMSELVES,

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          LOOK CHILD NO ONE PERSON LIVING WHERE AND WHEN JESUS WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE ALL THESE VERY NEWSWORTHY THINGS HAPPEN REPORTED ONE WORD OF IT. THAT IS NO ONE

        • Lee

          Ignorance is bliss Ive heard.

  • Josephus a Roman historian wrote about Christ; the Jewish Talmud is filled with hostile remarks about Christ–so the idea that the Lord Jesus never lived is absurd! On the following points the prophets agree, that Messiah will be God Almighty in human flesh; that He would become a man (Isa. 7:14, 9:6; 43:11 compared with Luke 2:11); that He was from eternity (Micah 5:2); that He would be rejected by the Jews (Isa. 53:1-3; Zech. 12:10); that He would die for our transgressions having His hands pierced (Psa. 22:16; Isa. 53:9, 12; Dan. 9:26); that He would rise again from the grave (Psa. 16:10); that God (Elohim-the plural in the Hebrew) anointed God (Elohim) in the flesh above other humans (Psa. 2:3, 110.1; Luke 1:35, 2:11; Heb. 1:6-9); that this Messiah-Son described in the Old Testament, is to be to be worshiped or the Son’s coming wrath makes one perish in the way (Psa. 2:12). Note: Only the Jesus Christ of history has fulfilled all these requirements, promises and prophecies. And this is one reason why eight of Jesus’ disciples, and also four early noted Christians willingly and historically suffered martyrdom, preferring death to that of denying their faith in Christ. Naturally, no one dies for the propagation of a lie, including these twelve eye witnesses of the Lord and His ministry who kept the faith, again, historically, and willingly laid their lives down: Matthew, Mark, Luke, Peter, Andrew, Thomas, Matthias, Bartholomew, James the Greater, Barnabas, Paul, Jude and James the brothers of Jesus.

    Now there is one sure way to prove the existence of God. And that is to keep His love commandments of the New Testament, for the Lord Jesus promises that He will reveal Himself to any person who loves others with His inner love derived from the Christian faith (John 14:21). Jesus also put the challenge this way: “Knock and it shall be opened unto you; seek and you shall find; ask and it shall be given you” (Matt. 7:7). Why not take Him up on His challenges? Why not taste and see that the Lord is good (Psa. 34:8)? Surely a person shall find the Lord when they search for Him with all their heart (Pro. 8:17; Jer. 29:13). After all, the Lord is not willing that anyone should perish (2 Pet. 3:9), for He came to save the world, not condemn the world (John 12:47).

    Why belief? Why faith? Did you know that without a blood sacrifice God won’t accept you. In Scripture, the Lord accepted Abel’s blood sacrifice, the firstlings of his flock (a lamb), but rejected Cain’s gift of produce from his fields (Gen. 4:3-7). Indeed, our God who is holy, demands a blood-death sacrifice. And that’s the good news, for He has supplied the blood-death sacrifice for us in the person of Jesus Christ, who is really Himself, God Almighty in human flesh. Surely the Just shall live by faith (Gen. 15:6; Hab. 2:4; Rom. 1:17), and they will learn to trust Him in all of their doings. And this is the reason for faith; that faith itself may grow within us, thereby substantiating the existence of a personal, loving and caring God; to us who believe. That we may know in whom we’ve believed (2 Tim. 1:12)! Indeed, we are to cast all our care upon Him, for He cares for us (1 Pet. 5:7).

    Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? (Pro. 30:4)! In the Bible God Almighty became a man, His name is Jesus Christ (Isa. 7:14, 9:6; Col. 1:15-17; Rev. 1:8). As we can see, this was prophesied by many prophets over the centuries. Surely phony interpretations of the word “son” are clearly exposed, if not outright ridiculous. Example, some think the “son” here in this verse is Israel, but never has Israel gathered the wind in its fists (Israel doesn’t have fists), or ascended into Heaven and descended to the Earth. Simply Israel has not bound the waters of the Earth into a garment, nor has Israel established the ends of the Earth—Israel is not the Creator-Redeemer of mankind!

    By belief, or rather simple trust in His sacrifice and person, Jesus Christ offers eternal life by faith to anyone who believes (the shedding of His blood, and the resurrection–John 3:16; Eph. 2:13, Rom. 10:9-10). That in a nut shell is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is His death, burial and resurrection, and all just for you, that is, if you will receive it by faith; if you will believe it (1 Cor. 15:3-4). Now does anyone have a better deal? Does anyone have a contract with some other entity that guarantees eternal life?

    Concerning the deity of Christ, no wonder the Psalmist wrote, “Kiss the Son (Hebrew: worship), lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little . . . ” (Psa. 2:12). Whose wrath? The Son’s wrath! Now some claim the erroneous interpretation that we should worship and trust “pure,” and not the Son of God. Some even claim the interpretation of the “Son” in Psalms 2:12 is Israel, yet common sense tells us that Israel is not a Savior, nor can be the Redeemer. Actually NO ONE trusts or worships “pure” or the nation of Israel, because as easily seen these are ludicrous interpretations! In sum, Israel and “pure” will not judge the nations, nor have they wrath, or the ability to have wrath in the Judgement, much less make unbelievers as a whole perish! The verse in Psalms 12:2 goes on to read, “Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him,” which can only be the Son of God, or the Redeemer of mankind, for Christ’s Gospel of the Kingdom, as cogently prophesied and documented, has gone throughout the world. Moreover, as prophesied in Psalms 2, this Son-King will sit on the Holy Hill of Jerusalem. Indeed, David’s rebuilt Throne will once again become real when the Messiah sits on it and rules the nations with a rod of iron as the Word foretells in many places.

    Inappropriate as it may seem, to know the Lord is to eat His body and to drink His blood (John 6:53). By so partaking of faith, Christ is within, not without (Eph. 3:16, 17, 19; 1 John 3:9). In clearer terms, this is to know the faith that brings Christ’s power to love (1 John 4:8), for God Himself as the Spirit of Christ, who is love, indwells us (Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 3:16). Speaking of this one Spirit, we find that the Father indwells the Christian (Eph. 4:6); the Son indwells the Christian (Col. 1:27); and the Holy Spirit indwells the Christian (1 Cor. 6:19) ONE SPIRIT. Aptly, John wrote, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” For He is the Holy Spirit, or the ONE SPIRIT whom we have to deal: “For through him we both have access by ONE SPIRIT unto the Father (Eph. 2:18). Surely if you haven’t accepted Christ as your personal Savior, you need to by confessing the Lord (Rom. 10:9-10); the words of Jesus are Spirit and Life!

    • woad2112

      Josephus’ reference was a medieval forgery and was written 60 years after the fact. Using the bible to prove the e istence of biblical figures doest work. That would be like breaking out a Barry Potter book to prove that Harry Potter really exists. The Talmud is a medieval work, so mentions of Christ there would not prove his existence…only that people were talking about him them.

      • bobmead1960

        My book “Come on MAN, Speak English to ME about GOD” will prove the Bible to be the most precisely themed and complete book of all time. Going to show proof that the Bible is the greatest book of all time. Best Wishes!

    • ilovegardenias

      I’ll address just two things you said. G*d does not require a blood sacrifice. In fact, many times a person was to bring flour or meal and oil. So far as I know, those things do not bleed. As for Cain and Abel, you need to read the narrative again. Cain was a tiller of the field. Therefore, he owned no animals to sacrifice. Abel brought the best of his flock. Not merely from his flock. The *best*. Cain brought from his field. Note that he did not bring of the *best* of his field. *That* is why his offering was rejected.

  • zonmoy

    if the eclipse, earthquake, rending of the veil werent bad enough then one would think that a hoard of walking dead would be more than enough to get the attention of the authorities. this is from mathew 27 ” 52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.”

  • zonmoy

    gods evil lies are more unjust than anything.

  • MMaximuSS1975

    Any mention by Josephus is considered a forgery that was probably inserted around the 4th century. Biblical scholarship does not consider the passage authentic.
    Same as the Annals of Tacitus. Considered another forgery. The oldest extant copies are missing books, and are no older then 11th Century copies with evidence of alterations discovered under UV light by modern scientific methods. “Chrestians” was changed to “Christians”.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      SO TRUE!

  • LePetomane

    Just a question. What ever happened to the original 10 Commandments? I mean the ones written by God’s finger on rock? The most valuable thing ever?! Proof of a god. Who lost them?

    • ilovegardenias

      Moses smashed them, ground them into powder, made a tea of it, and made the people drink it. Afterwards he wrote a new set, himself.

    • Edward Enz

      It’s called an imagination.

      • Hello Edward:
        God Almighty became a man; His name is Jesus; He is alive and well. The Lord in the flesh puts this challenge to us–Seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be open unto you; ask and it shall be given unto you. It is simple–it is reserved for the sincere of heart. Scripture declares search for me with all your heart and YOU shall find me. Jesus also said, my words are Spirit and Life. I’m 70 years old; I was raised by non-believers. When I was I was eighteen I read Matthew 24; I didn’t understand it; but I believed it was God speaking. Years later I do understand it–BETTER THAN MOST; Jesus is real. He died for us–all we have to do is believe it–faith makes us born again and gives eternal life–IT IS THAT SIMPLE. So if I were you–I’d call on the name of the Lord immediately–Jesus is His name, and His Gospel as prophesied by Him has gone thru out the world (Matt. 24:14). All you have to do is believe His love for you and accept Him and His forgiveness–it is the GIFT and goodness of God!.

        • Merrill Clark

          I think you’re delusional.
          So you imagine that adherents of other religions don’t claim the same kinds of BS?

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          HERE IS THE SAME REPLY TO YOU, ROBERT, I MADE ABOVE. —– AS MULTI-MILLIONS OF FORMER LAY CHRISTIANS, PLUS THE OVER 600 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS, WHO ARE NOW ALL ATHEISTS AND MEMBERS OF THE CLERGY PROJECT, WOULD AGREE WITH, YOUR COMMENTS ARE SPOKEN LIKE THE POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN YOU ARE.

  • xxcrowleyxx

    If you don;t believe he existed well then he didn’t people don;t believe Hitler killed over 6 million Jews either but 6 million Jews sated he did. They also say napoleon was a short man but the painters made him short because napoleon wanted to make sure his horse was in the painting as well as him. Christ was as real as you and me. I forget but there was a Jewish prophet at the time who say the messiah will ride on the back of a jackass in to the temple before it was destroyed. And Christ did. The Muslims said essay(Christ) existed but another man died on the cross. Know why?. since the “image” of Muhammad or any kinda icon, symbol is illegal in the Koran, Christ brings up a paradox with the laws of Islam about imagery. best was to deal with it is to say another man died in stead of Christ.

    And the reason why the “bible” is they way it is constructed is because the Early church wanted to RULE over all the Christians-. In fact the early church of 1000 ad hunted the early Christians (Gnostic) and killed them, why because it was all about power. HOWEVER there knowledge survived. the church is the problem and they have all the information about Christ like the (full) gospel according to Matthew. is considered sacrilege,heresy. How can a Gospel of Christianity be heresy?.. simple” when it say “Nothing made from stone, iron or wood can ever represent the kingdom of god” <- that's a no-no. There are also the lost gospels too. These are the one the church tried to destroy. like the Gospel according to Judas!!. Also the Gospel according to Mary. Now think about it back then when Christ was born what was he?.. Simple he was a abomination, a freak , a curse of the devil. Why? What tells us this?.. how do we know for sure?.. Where is the fact of this?.. Well Like now adays we have OBGYN doctors and such well we also have "mid wifes" well BACK THEN THEY HAD THEM TOO!! These mid wife know there bodies pretty well. Ok so what is the point.. My point is when (according to the gospel of Mary) her pregnancy is impossible and the work of evil. When mary preached "she was impregnated by father almighty" and no man touched her every one laughed and was told to keep quite. it;s not good to take gods name in vain. Then she showed something was happening.. Well the mid wifes confirmed no man touched Mary and called it a abomination! Well what told them.. MARY"S HYMEN WAS INTACT!!! back then this was taboo but the church said this is WAYYYYYYYYY to raunchy and took the gospel out… Comon sense tells you CHRIST WAS A REAL BEING OF FLESH AND BLOOD- WHAT was he is another matter. when he was growing up he killed and brought back a lot of people.. O sorry, never heard of that.. Look up the lost books of the bible.. Christ was a little prick when he was growing up..

    By the way Romans NEVER kept accurate day to day affairs about life in the empire. Except for the taxes, gold shipments and wars. the Emperor didn;t care about the stories from the lands he was just concerned about how much money he had in the coffers. IF Rome was "that efficient" with governing, they would have survived up untill today.

    • Stephen Polasky

      My beliefs are right because my holy book and religious indoctrination say so. Ignore those pesky facts and lack of facts that put into question my religious beliefs!

      • bobmead1960

        My upcoming book will prove the existence of God beyond a shadow of a doubt. The post is at the top of the page.

        • Merrill Clark

          Uhm….sure, Bob…..sure…..

    • Whoa. Cool it on Hymen shouting. I expect all my readers, when discussing hymens or other anatomy, to be respectful and polite.

  • Kevin Joslin

    Interesting article. I might have added Gilgamesh to the list of parallel ‘semi-deities’. But the major omission, which needs to be included next time, is the Nativity. As has been well evidenced, the Romans were pretty good administrators and tended to record the details of things like taxation and census results, but to suggest that they required everyone to travel to their ancestral home in order to be be counted, stretches credibility beyond breaking point. The Romans were a bit cleverer than that. They could (and did) count people where they lived. Bethlehem was chosen by the authors of the Gospels because it paid lip service to the Jewish prophecy that the Messiah would come from the city of David.

    The second issue, which is a biggie, is the account of the birth. There are no contemporary accounts of a bright star over Bethlehem – the Romans were keenly interested in astrology and would have recorded it, as would the Egyptians and Greeks. It was common at the time for women to give birth in the area in the middle of the dwelling, which was typically divided in two to provide shelter for livestock. The central area, where the livestock would be fed, was open, and provided a perfect place away from the main living area. Under the Jewish faith, childbirth was, and is, ritually unclean, so a location away from the living area would have been essential. Furthermore, the supposed presence of shepherds, wise men and Joseph, at the birth, or even close, is unthinkable for the same reason.

    It’s a nice story, but it’s just a story. I don’t doubt that there are those who sincerely believe that they hear the voice of God/Jesus every day. But there are several psychological disorders which would account for that and it is interesting that those who have Schizoid personality disorder, which tends to make them averse to close emotional attachments to people, often have a strong love for their chosen deity.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      AND THERE WERE MANY PREVIOUS “SAVIORS” WHO WERE ALL BORN OF VIRGINS, ALL BORN AROUND THE 22 OF DEC. ALL HAD WISE MEN AT THEIR BIRTH. ALL HAD THEIR OWN STAR, ALL KILLED AND ALL CAME BACK TO LIFE.

  • 10. There are no contemporaneous accounts of a lot of people of ancient history. Homer, Confucius and Pythagoras come to mind.

    9. Ditto. I’m surrently researching a history of Zen, and just about everything we know about anybody in Zen is second hand. Ancient people didn’t even take notes. Often stuff wasn’t written down for at least a century.

    8 and 7. True, but historians believe at least some of the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) have an older source in common, accounting for the similarities of these texts written years apart by separate, anonymous people. So there’s possibly a germ of real biography in there somewhere. Certainly the synoptic gospels are thought to have been written soon enough after the life of Jesus that some people who had known him were still alive and might have been sources. That they were written to recruit converts in itself doesn’t prove anything.

    6. Of course not. Paul didn’t convert to Christianty until after Jesus had died. Duh.

    5. Points 5 and 8 are the same thing.

    4. Yes, but see my response to point 9 about bad note-taking and point 1 about history being mythologized. Ancient people didn’t made stuff up a lot, even when the subject of the story was a real person or when the event being mythologized actually happened, in a sense. The notion of writing stuff that was just literally true was an alien concept to them.

    3. There are no tangible historical artifacts linked to a lot of ancient people. See above about Homer, Confucius and Pythagoras. I believe the earliest historical artifacts linked to the entire tradition of Buddhism are the pillars of Ashoka, which date to at least a couple of centuries after the life of Buddha. No contemporaneous accounts of Buddha, either, btw.

    2. I’ll take your word for the non-existence of Nazareth, although that’s the first I’ve heard of it. There may be a confusion over names, since “Nazareth” is probably not the original Aramaic.

    1. There’s no question that the life of Jesus was heavily mythologized, which again was pretty common with ancient people. All kinds of famous people in Buddhist history were said to have been born from lotus blossoms, yet we’re pretty sure they existed. Also it was common for scribes to “improve” stories with heroic and fantastical details, puffing up the status of the subject. I run into it all the time. If we assume all the people whose lives were mythologized and who have no contemporaneous corroborations, etc., didn’t exist, you erase a huge amount of ancient history.

  • One other point I’d like to bring up about historical evidence and Jesus. Keep in mind that Jesus didn’t stand out that much until after he was dead and Paul became his chief promoter. In the 1st century the region was swarming with prophets and would-be messiahs. They were as common as toasters. Reza Aslan’s “Zealot” or any of the books on early Christianity by Paula Fredriksen are good sources on this. Aslan says there were at least three different prophets/healers/miracle workers named “Jesus” (in Greek). The particular Jesus who became the focus of the Jewish reformist cult that eventually morphed into Christianity was just one of many, in other words, and he wasn’t considered particularity interesting to anyone outside his circle until Paul, for whatever reason, took up his cause and promoted him. As a result, nearly everything written down about him was written in retrospect and heavily mythologized. But most serious historians, including non-Christian one, think the myths were based loosely on a real person.

  • Blood sacrifice? “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an ATONEMENT for your souls: for IT IS BLOOD that maketh an atonement for the soul.”(Lev. 17:11)

  • 10 reasons Jesus never existed? How about the leveling of Jerusalem by Rome in AD 70–DOES THIS HISTORICAL FACT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE LACK OFSECULAR HISTORY OF LORD? YOU BET IT DOES, AND ONLY HARD HEARTED AND CLOSED MINDED UNBELIEVERS WILL AND WOULD DENY THIS FACT!

    • Jesus sucked gay penis

      Calm down, no need to get so angry about a fairy-tale. Peace.

    • Too shouty.

  • jaycar

    This is like way above my actual motivation to even reply but ill just put this here. I was at work and thought to myself. So there was a Adam and Eve and they had some kids. So did god make some more people for those kids to bang or we all here from countless ages of incest?

  • Christopher Moore

    Still rejected by His own people.

  • Jesus sucked gay penis

    Christianity: One woman’s lie about an affair that got really out of hand.

  • Laila Jameson

    Why I Think Jesus Didn’t Exist: A Historian Explains the Evidence That Changed His Mind – Dr. Richard Carrier

  • sound_logik

    My favourite part about articles like these is watching all the nut jobs come out to play in the comments. It must give the author immense pleasure to know there are thousands of fuming mad christians staring at their computer screens right now trying to find some sort of evidence to support their ridiculous claims.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      SO TRUE!

  • James Varney

    These “arguments” are all low-level trash. Why bother?

    • Wow James! That’s not very nice. Definitely not very Christ-like.

      • James Varney

        Excuse me? I think Christ was happy to call trash trash.

        • Christ was happy to call trash trash? You gotta be thinking of someone else. Isn’t the Christ story about a hippy, free-love kinda guy? In fact, wouldn’t The bible story Christ totally be a Bernie Sanders supporter?!

          • James Varney

            Nope.

            • J.C. would be feelin’ the Bern’ in 2016.

              • James Varney

                No, Jesus was against theivin’.

                • Merrill Clark

                  Ah, against theivin’.
                  So definitely a Berner since he would have opposed the 1% robbing us blind for the last 40 years.

                  • James Varney

                    Stealing from the rich is still stealing.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Taking back what someone stole from you isn’t stealing.

                    • James Varney

                      You’re an idiot.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Really?
                      Then how is it that I know the common definitions of words and you don’t?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      There is no such thing as a “self made man”.

                      Most rich people are born wealthy.

                      Those that aren’t make it because of socialism. The roads and bridges they drive on, the public school educated workers they hire, protection from fires, environmental pollution, protection from fraud and theft, the postal service, the internet, the food subsidized by tax money, the vaccines from government labs, the sewage systems, the court systems, subsidized electricity from dams built with government money…….

                      Only a dick would claim that they didn’t get help from the rest of us and only a dick would refuse to pay their fair share.

                      Marx was wrong about the solution but right…so very very right….about the problem.
                      Capitalism is unsustainable.

                    • James Varney

                      Disgusting trash.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Truth hurts, fool?

                    • James Varney

                      No. Dopey lies do bore though.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      What is boring, idiot boy, is that you have no arguments. Only disgruntled quips.

                    • James Varney

                      You seem to have ignored my arguments above. RU SCAIRT?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahaha….

                      I have a life, son Just got the notices that you are still blowing blather and smoke.

                      And I’ve dispatched your best “theology” without breaking a sweat or using a reference source.

                      Next.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      RU ADOLEZENT?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “Watching you devolve from semi-human to Shoggoth was as frightening as it was entertaining. Adios!”

                      LOL

                      Yup, goober, I completely morphed in the course of one short conversation.
                      Way to end on a note of disconnection from reality son.

                      I’ll always remember you as the clown who actually posited that killing a girl’s family then raping her for the rest of her life was doing her a favor.

                      You’re a rare beast.

                      Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!, you scary little ideological mutant.

                    • James Varney

                      Rage + nonsense. A sad state of affairs. That’s the problem with a “secular morality.” It can only lead to impotent rage at God, gods, the universe, whatever. The good news is that you Atheism+ acolytes are doomed to the dustbin of history. No one takes your position seriously. The religious man feels pity, and the intellectual secular man scorn. You live on Kurtz’ razor edge, trying to defend the indefensible (watered-down Christian morality without any logical Source) with scientific delusions (which can do nothing but obviate any attempts at justice.) Your ethics are impotent and ridiculous. It’s funny that your admiration of PZ Meyers is so obvious. He’s a man who is almost universally reviled even by his own atheists, and who couldn’t reason his way out of a lambskin condom — and you find in It a source of inspiration! The most recent fracturing at “Freethoughtblogs” (sic) is just the latest example of the corrosive, nihilistic, solipsistic nuttery that you’ve hitched your waning star to. So enjoy all that. The truth is, I do find your position pitiable, but I know that there’s a God above who loves you and wants you to be happy. You’re in a cult. Break free of the shackles of your own dim imaginings and half-assed conjecture. You can do it! Peace.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      James, I’ve posted a response to this ridiculous post of yours 4 times and listland keeps deleting it.

                      Suffice it to say near;y everything you said here is wrong.

                    • James Varney

                      WELL NEIL C REINHARDT THINKS WE ARE BOTH WRONG ROBOTS.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      HALF RIGHT IS BETTER THAN ALL WRONG.

                    • James Varney

                      EVEN A BROKEN CIRCLE ROBOT IS RIGHT 3.1415926535897…

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Argumentum ad Pi-you’ve invented a new logical fallacy.
                      Congrats.

                    • James Varney

                      You may call it the Roombic Fallacy.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Whatever.

                    • James Varney

                      Hey Merrill: piss off.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hey James: right back at ya.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Wow, you don’t even change the playground taunts from one thread to the next, do you?

                      You make all atheists look bad here with your childish temper tantrums.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahaha…..

                      Because I used the term “goober”/
                      You’re a complete idiot.

                      You must be pretty butt hurt to follow me from thread to thread like this.
                      I got under your skin, didn’t I, Mrs. Proud to call herself a troll.

                      Yea, fool, I care about your opinion.

                    • Darque Wing

                      It’s just the same childish, blind hate spewed in all directions. You’re just a hatebot.

                      You make all atheists look bad.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Free preview of every conversation you’ve ever had:

                      “YOUR DUM! GOOBER! NUMB NUTS! UR DUM!”

                      You’re respectful to no one. You’re just an ugly human being, all around – an embarrassment not just to atheists but to our entire species.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Free preview of every Dark Wing Duck boy conversation:

                      “U R FULL OF HATE AND CHILDISH TAUNTS”

                      Oh, and….

                      “U R UGLY AND YOU SHOULD SIT ON IT AND TWIRL”

                      I’m respectful to most.
                      Your experiences are universal only for you.

                      Think about why that might be so, genius.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Wow, four ranting, hate-filled, temper-tantrum replies from one post?

                      Yeah, gee, how could anyone think you’re a simple-minded ragebot.

                      By the way, your history is open. Go ahead, look at it, and find all those examples of conversations that you didn’t have because you were busy just shouting the same playground insults over and over again.

                      It’s typical of people with arrested intellectual and emotional development.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      What a surprise, the incompetent troll who can’t think also can’t count.

                      Did the little special snow flake get her fee fees hurt and follow me to a new site to whine?

                      So sad.

                      No one need look an further than your comments here to see which of us is the ” simple-minded ragebot”.

                      I can get you a used irony meter cheap, missy.
                      Yours is clearly blown out.

                      It’s typical of over indulged children who have lived sheltered lives to harbor rage for extended periods.

                      Don’t worry, you’ll eventually grow up.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yeah, “simple-minded rage bot.” Yet another crayon-scrawled screed full of childish insults isn’t helping to fix that.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      “…another crayon-scrawled screed full of childish insults…”

                      You’re getting stale again, little monkey.
                      The “childish insult/taunt ” thing is overworked.

                      Now, dance monkey, I’m getting bored.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Monkey? Racist, too?

                      Well, that certainly fits you nicely.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahaha…..

                      Yup goober, calling someone a dancing monkey is racist.
                      Uh huh.

                      Dance faster, monkey.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yeah, black people tend to think that calling them monkeys is racist.

                      This is news to you?

                      For the record, to anyone reading this: no, not all atheists are incoherent, bigoted rageaholics like this… “person.”

                    • Merrill Clark

                      You’re not black, you little fraud.

                      And pointing out that a raging troll is a dancing monkey has nothing to do with race.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Uh, yes, actually, I am.

                      I know you think that black people can’t be educated and eloquent, but that has more to do with your own racism than truth.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      How stupid does one have to be to think that making one’s discus profile private will prevent one’s history as a rageaholic from being readily accesible?

                      Here’s you, you steaming pile of hatred, from one year ago:

                      {“Darque Wing • a year ago

                      Great news. Darque Wing has just released the Mrs. Clinton/ Darque Wing line of Darque Wing Pads and Panties. I know we’ve all been waiting. Where is your video advertisement? I expect that will fit anyone smaller, like yourself on up to Mrs. Clinton? One size for all emoprogressives.”}

                      And you whine when I call you missy. missy?

                      GTFO

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yeah, that wasn’t me. That was another ragebot who spent most of a year posing as me, as you would have known if you had bothered looking at that profile and then mine. Or if you had actually read any of those comments. Or if you knew anything at all, which is obviously hoping for too much from you.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Go ahead, click the profile name.

                      Or don’t, and just keep lying because it makes you feel better.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Why would I bother?
                      You have a long comment trail online. You can’t hide it.

                      This is what you do and now you’re my monkey.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Why would you bother finding out that you’re wrong?

                      Yeah, that’s kind of the reasoning I’d expect from you. It feels good, believe it.

                      That’s why you’re such a poor representation of atheism.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      Who said I represent atheism, you bumbling dick holster?
                      And why would you assume I care?

                    • Darque Wing

                      Did you forget where you were again?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Yup, goober, posting on an atheist site means I represent atheism.
                      You have your own little rule book it would seem.

                    • Darque Wing

                      So yeah, you forgot where you were, and you cover up your shame – as usual – by hurling childish insults.

                      Just wait until the babysitter gets home and finds out you skipped your nap.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “….you cover up your shame – as usual – by hurling childish insults.
                      Just wait until the babysitter gets home and finds out you skipped your nap.”

                      This just isn’t fun anymore when you post things like that with no self awareness whatsoever.

                      You don’t even understand that you are hilarious but not by intention.
                      No challenge in insulting those who insult themselves.

                    • Darque Wing

                      You mean, like how you call everyone stupid to cover up the fact that you’re embarrassed of your own microscopic intellect?

                    • Darque Wing

                      See, that’s the difference between merely being wrong and lying: now that you know what you said isn’t true, you’re still saying it.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      From the clown who flew off the handle and called me a Clinton paid shill and a liar when I simply asked him how he would waste his vote.
                      If you could harness this imaginative impulse, son, you could be the next Vonnegut.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yeah, you’re not the first simple-minded ragebot to become obsessed with me. So?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      Says the completely transparent ragebot who just clicked on my discus profile….

                      Are you for real, dancing monkey?

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yes, I clicked on your profile and figured out very quickly that every conversation you get into goes just like this one.

                      Someone says something that you just can’t handle, and you fall completely to pieces.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope, goober, only the conversations in which I troll the trolls.

                      Hilarious.
                      The guy who teed off on me simply because I told him Sanders isn’t going to be the democratic nominee thinks I “fall completely to pieces” when I can’t handle something.

                      Astounding.

                      You’re just a buzzing, jangoing tangle of cognitive dissonance, aren’t you , missy.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      I’m done yanking your chain, son.
                      You can have the last word.

                      Have a nice life.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Aw, did the rage wear off?

                      Don’t worry, after your nap, it’ll be back.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope, just bored and I think you’ve learned your lessons after wasting hours formulating your oh so grammatically correct replies.

                    • Darque Wing

                      So you lied about leaving, too.

                      There’s a surprise.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      ‘bye.

                    • Darque Wing

                      One word, can’t spell, can’t punctuate.

                      And it was probably a lie anyway.

                      Kind of sums you up, doesn’t it?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      No, I had my nap and I’m still bored with you.

                      ‘bye.

                    • Darque Wing

                      And you’re still going.

                      How many times are you going to lie about leaving?

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yes, and I can see yours plainly.

                      Why did you think I dismissed your petty, childish insults as petty and childish from the very beginning? Because I recognize them as the sort of “comebacks” that children use.

                      You can’t actually read the comment, can you?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      The “you can’t even read/punctuate/spell” thing is getting tired, son.
                      Think of something new or I’m going to stop responding to you.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “…. another crayon-scrawled screed full of childish insults …”

                      Seriously, I can get you a good used irony meter for cheap, son.

                      I can’t believe an English major typed that phrase.
                      Actually, I can’t even believe an adult typed that phrase.

                    • Darque Wing

                      No, I’m not an English major anymore. I know you spent all that time trying to dig up dirt on me and all, but you should probably know that majors go on to graduate.

                      Or… maybe you didn’t know that.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope, fool.
                      English major graduates call themselves BAs.

                    • Darque Wing

                      You mean, they don’t call themselves “English majors?”

                      You don’t say.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope, ‘graduates’ don’t call themselves ‘majors’.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Not after they graduate, no.

                      This is all pretty new to you, isn’t it?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      So…
                      Which is it?
                      Waste your vote writing in Sanders or vote for hopeless cause, Stein?

                      Decisions….decisions…..

                      What’s it gonna be, Dunning-Kruger poster girl?

                    • Darque Wing

                      Do you think calling me a girl is supposed to hurt my feelings? Are you really that desperate to find something, anything to offend me?

                      I don’t know which is worse – the fact that the only communication you’re capable of is incoherent screeching, or that you aren’t even very good at it.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Yup, too stupid to see how stupid you are.

                      Another swing, another whiff.

                      Maybe you should go back to the grammar nazi thing again.
                      It’s always the last resort of failed trolls.

                      So….

                      Sanders or Stein, fool?
                      That’s the source of your anger, no?
                      Pity that reality is so offensive to you.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      See, here’s the thing, goober.
                      When I say you are stupid it’s not a gratuitous insult.
                      I actually give you logical proof and evidence that would be undeniable if you weren’t too stupid to know how stupid you actually are.

                      Here it is for this exchange:

                      You followed me here from Alternet on a post about Bernie Sanders.
                      You got your butt kicked and now you’re here to express your butt hurt like a petulant child.
                      So….like a 12 year old on her mommy’s computer you follow me from site to site and try to embarrass me.
                      The thing is, moron, I don’t really care what people on this site think of me any more than I care what you think of me.

                      See how that works?
                      That means you are wasting your time because of your butt hurt.

                      And that…..

                      makes you stupid.

                    • Darque Wing

                      goober
                      stupid
                      butt hurt
                      mommy’s computer

                      How many more AOL-era trolling memes can you fit into one generic rant?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      The only one I didn’t take from your own posts is “goober”, you dumb mofo.

                    • Darque Wing

                      No, all your insults are just the same canned lines you use every time you talk to anyone on the internet.

                      Kind of takes the sting out of it when you let people know that this is the only way you know how to communicate.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      What part of “I took them from your own posts” isn’t clear to you, little snow flake?

                      Hypocrisy-what a concept.

                    • Darque Wing

                      No, you didn’t get any of your playground taunts from me. As you’ve shown, you can neither comprehend nor even spell the ones I use.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      What’s to comprehend, moron?
                      A verbatim quote is a verbatim quote.
                      And a hypocrite is a hypocrite.

                      By your own words, fool.

                    • Darque Wing

                      And what verbatim quote did you use?

                      Oh, that’s right. Not a single one. Just the same canned replies you’ve always used against anyone and everyone.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      The insults all came from your posts, ass wipe, with the exception of “goober”.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Whoops. Jumped the gun on that one, did you?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      WUT?

                      Try to make sense even though you’re angry, son.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahahaha…

                      I just reposted some rage from you that is a year old and you were using the same tired insults, fool.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Uh, no, you didn’t. You might have thought you did, but again, that limited comprehension is really slowing you down.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Yes, I did.
                      Own it, son.

                      Your track record online speaks for itself, missy.
                      You’re a regular troll at Mother Jones, raging against all who disagree with you.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Again: all you had to do was look to find out you were wrong. And you couldn’t even do that.

                      Faith.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Read my lips, son.

                      I.
                      Do.
                      Not.
                      Care.

                      Even your track record on this thread proves my point.

                    • Darque Wing

                      So you care so little that you spend half a week raging and raging and raging away.

                      And there’s another lie. You do that a lot, don’t you?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Yup, you moronic ass wipe, not caring about one point is the same as not caring about all points.

                      You should take an introduction to informal logic course. It would do you good.

                      YHBT

                    • Darque Wing

                      There’s the rage again.

                      Rage and lies. That’s pretty much all you’ve got. Well, that and your very best kiddie one-liners.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      {“Darque Wing Imma Commenter • a year ago

                      Of course, each one will be personalized by its troll’s particular misspellings and random punctuation.”}

                      Too funny.
                      Kafka would have made you immortal had he known you.

                    • Darque Wing

                      And there you go again, not even reading what’s there.

                      The irony is overwhelming.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahaha….

                      “I was taken out of context…”

                      “You can’t prove I said it…”

                      “It wasn’t me….”

                      Somebody’s getting a bit riled up.

                    • Darque Wing

                      No, actually, I proved I didn’t say it, but I understand you have a lie you want to believe.

                      Faith, and all that.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      It doesn’t matter, son, even if that were true.
                      Your online track record makes you a hypocrite once again.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Yeah, I get it, you lied, got caught, and just shrugged and kept right on lying.

                      Faith.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      No lie-it was your post under your name.

                    • Darque Wing

                      But not my profile. Which you would have known if you had even the foggiest clue how to check.

                      You lie often, but not very well.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “….it was an imposter, I tell ya….”

                      LOL

                    • Darque Wing

                      I didn’t tell you. I proved it.

                      You’re just not bright enough and not honest enough to admit it.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      BTW, you insufferable imbecile,
                      no one is reading these posts except you and me.
                      So flagging me is as pointless as replying.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Hey, another one of your tics: “insufferable imbecile.”

                      Ever notice that every sentence you write has at least one of these tics that you borrowed from an unimaginative third-grader? That is, when you can remember to punctuate and end a sentence. Literacy isn’t your strong point, either.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Aaaaand there it is again…

                      The big shoe rubber nose guy is trying to grammar nazi me because he’s got nothing else.

                      And that, missy, is one of your “tics”.

                      Give it up, girl.
                      You’re just going to end up bleeding from every orifice every time you swing.

                    • Darque Wing

                      “grammar nazi” [sic]?

                      Do you really think anyone is ever going to be fooled into thinking you’re smart by calling people stupid… badly?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      How do you dance with those big shoes on, fool?

                      Do you really think grammar nazi-ing is going to fool people into thinking you’re here to do anything but troll?

                      LOL
                      If I’m calling you stupid badly, why are you here stinking up the site with your butt hurt, moron?

                      Oops…
                      stung by logic once again, eh, fool?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Thanks for sharing, you special little snow flake.
                      Now toddle off to bed and dream about calling people names.

                    • Darque Wing

                      How many times a year do you use the “special little snow flake” line?

                      Your history is open. It’s not hard to see.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LMFAO

                      You’re the first and only, fool.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Psst… your history is open. It’s pretty easy to tell that your only way of talking to people is to shout playground taunts.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      You are so funny, li’l snow flake.

                      Confirmation bias doesn’t happen in catholic churches.

                    • Darque Wing

                      You really don’t know how transparent you are, do you?

                    • Darque Wing

                      You would actually have to know something in order to be able to explain it to anyone, little guy.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      I know what a butt hurt troll is because I see your droppings. ; >)
                      For an English major you certainly seem to have some major difficulties with English, son.

                    • Darque Wing

                      No, I don’t have any problems with English. I can spot the lack of education from a mile away in you.

                      The fact that you’re always talking about butts and poop, though… I know Freud isn’t much of a pillar of psychology anymore, but didn’t he say that you’re supposed to be out of that phase by about the age of three?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      College grad, son.
                      And I’m betting you didn’t even finish your BA.

                      I never used the word “poop”, you lying sack.
                      And “butt hurt” refers to your anal retentive failures, not any proclivity of mine.

                    • Darque Wing

                      You’re a college graduate and you cannot write without resorting to this childish chicken-scratch of yours?

                      I’m not so sure anyone will ever believe that.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL

                      Who lobbed the first age related insult, moron?
                      That would be you.

                      And you’re sure of a lot of things that just ain’t so.

                    • Darque Wing

                      Uh, you, actually.

                      Do you not even remember the childish slurs you use?

                      Is there anything you don’t lie about?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      I know you flagged me because I kicked your ass on a meaningless comment board, son.

                    • Darque Wing

                      You “know” wrong again. Funny how often that happens to you, for someone so smart and educated as you aren’t.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      All my non-insult replies to you got flagged.
                      “…But….but….but it wasn’t me….honest….”

                      LOL

                    • Darque Wing

                      You didn’t have any replies that weren’t insults.

                      And mine got flagged, too. I suppose you think that was me, too?

                      No, I’m just kidding. I know you can’t think.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      So, no actual argument-just crap mouthing?

                      Figures.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      No, crap for brains, it does not.

                      The two statements don’t contradict each other even when severed from the third statement-which is essential to understanding either.

                      Are you really this stupid?

                      And of course you favor a non-merit based system-how else would you not be living in a van down by the river.

                    • James Varney

                      Oops, I didn’t read the mentally retarded third statement. Roads are socialism! Tell that to the Romans.

                      I hope Ted Crudz gets elected and bans your buttplug.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hahahahahaha….

                      Risus abundat in ore stultorum, fool.

                      Who said anything about Roman roads, dick holster?

                      I don’t need a buttplug, crap tongue-my steel toed boot will fill your orifice more than adequately.

                      Yea, bozo, you stepped in it-again.

                    • James Varney

                      You claimed that self-made men don’t exist because of infrastructure. LOL

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “You claimed that self-made men don’t exist because of infrastructure. LOL”

                      Uhm, not quite.
                      Read it again and think about it a little bit deeper, it will come to you, son.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      THE FACTS ARE, THERE ARE MANY MEN AND WOMAN WHO THE MAJORITY OF INTELLIGENT, RATIONAL, LOGICAL AND INFORMED WOULD CONSIDER TO BE ‘SELF-MADE,”

                    • Merrill Clark

                      No, those are not “the facts”.
                      Everyone uses public roads, bridges, courts, police protection, etc etc
                      There is no business owner who doesn’t hire people educated by public schools.

                      There was a time several centuries back when a few nominally self made men existed but no one teaches himself to read or think.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YES CHILD, THEY ARE AND BOTH YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR LOGIC IS FRACKING TERRIBLE..

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope.
                      Nobody creates or educates him or herself.
                      Everybody uses publicly funded infrastructure.
                      Everyone benefits from not living in a country filled with uneducated people and criminals.

                      You haven’t thought about this very deeply, son.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      THOSE WHO ACT LIKE THEY KNOW WHAT “NO BODY” OR “EVERYBODY” DOES, OR DOES NOT DO, ONLY PROVE HOW EXTREAMY IGNORANT THEY ARE AS THE ODDS OF ANYONE KNOWING THOSE THINGS ARE ZERO!

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Calm down.

                      I’ve received 20 posts from you in the last 6 hours.
                      And you’re still shouting in print.

                      Show me a single person raised without contact with society who invented language or even learned to use fire.

                      Everyone benefits from being raised in society.
                      Simple logic, guy.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Google “bare assertion fallacy”, fool.

                      And stop shouting.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      I DO NOT DO THINGS MY MORAL AND INTELLECTUAL INFERIORS TELL ME TO DO.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      If you supported the Iraq war which killed at least one million Iraqis and made 5 million out of l25 million refugees, all for Halliburton’s oil profit gouging and Bush the less smart’s ego, you neither my moral nor intellectual equal, let alone superior.

                      Now, seriously, stop shouting in caps.
                      It’s annoying.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      LOOK CHILD

                      FIRST, I GIVE A RATS ASS LESS IF MY ALL CAPS ANNOY YOU. AND FYI, MANY OF MY NEARLY 500 FACEBOOK FRIENDS HAVE INFORMED ME MY USE OF ALL CAPS IS TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE TO THEM

                      SECOND, I AM INTELLECTUALLY SUPERIOR TO ANY ONE WHO IS SO DUMB THEY MAKE BLANKET STATEMENTS WHICH PROVE THEY THINK THEY KNOW THINGS WHICH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM, OR FOR ANYONE, TO KNOW! AND YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY DONE THAT. THIS ALSO MAKES ME MORALLY SUPERIOR TO YOU AS THOSE STATEMENT’S YOU MAKE ARE DISHONEST!

                      AND FYI, I AM MORALLY SUPERIOR TO MOST AS THE AVERAGE PERON LIES FOUR TIMES A DAY WHILE I HAVE NOT INTENTIONALLY ATTEMPTED TO DECEIVE ANYONE FOUR OR MORE TIMES IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. I AM WELL KNOWN, BY THOSE WHO KNOW ME WELL AND IN PERSON, AS BEING ONE OF, IF NOT THE SINGLE MOST HONEST AND TRUTHFUL PERSON THEY HAVE EVER MET. AND MANY OF THEM WILL SO ATTEST. NOT ONLY THIS, I WILL GLADLY TAKE ANY AND ALL TESTS USED TO DETECT IF SOMEONE IS BEING TRUTHFUL OR NOT AND I WILL NOT FAIL ONE OF THEM THESE INCLUDE THE STANDARD LIE DETECTION TEST, VOICE STRESS. THERMAL MEASUREMENT OF THE NOSE, EYE PUPIL DILATION AND MIND MAPPING.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      TL;DR

                      You need to get a life, soldier.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      LOOK CHILD,

                      AS I AM MUCH MORE GENERALLY EXPERIENCED THAN ARE MOST MY AGE OF 81, I HAVE HAD A MORE EXCITING AND INTERESTING LIFE THAN MOST EVEN COME CLOSE TO HAVING, IN FACT, THE ODDS ARE, YOUR LIFE IS VERY DULL WHEN COMPARED TO MINE.

                      I HAVE LIVED IN MORE PLACES, (3 COUNTRIES, 10 STATES & 20 CITIES) AT HIGHER (14,200 FT.AND LOWER ELEVATIONS, LIVED WITHIN IN 15 FEET OF THE PACIFIC AND 100 FEET OF THE ATLANTIC, BEEN OVER HIGHER PASSES, (15,600 FEET) HIT GOLF BALL ON HIGHER GOLF COURSES, (14,00O PLUS) BEEN A SCUBA, DEEP SEA DIVER, LIFE GUARD AND A PARATROOPER, AS WELL AS A MANUFACTURING SUPERVISOR SUPERVISING 92 EMPLOYEES WHO WERE BUILDING NCR’S MAIN FRAME COMPUTERS. I WAS EMPLOYED AS A SUSTAIN ENGINEER FOR XEROX AT THEIR MAIN FRAME COMPUTER FACILITY.

                      I HAVE TRAVELED MORE, RIDDEN ON, OR IN MORE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRAINS, WATER CRAFT AND AIRPLANES THAN HAVE MOST AND I JUMPED OUT OF FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES OF AIRCRAFT. I HAVE FIRED MORE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WEAPONS, HITCHHIKED FARTHER, DRIVEN MORE MILES, HAD MORE PROFESSIONS AND DONE MORE DANGEROUS THINGS THAN MOST PROBABLY EVEN THINK OF DOING. AND CHILD, I HAVE ENJOYED SEX WITH OVER 11 TIMES MORE WOMAN THAN HAVE MOST MEN.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      TL;DR

                      Your caps lock is stuck.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      “PROVING YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO EVEN KNOW WHAT A WMD IS!”

                      LOL
                      Proving you would believe a Mac10 was a WMD is Bush had told you it was.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      TL;DR

                      Turn off your caps lock.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      AS I KNOW OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAUGHT THEMSELVES TO READ, YOU ARE AGAIN, FACTUALLY WRONG. ——————————————————————————————————————-AND THERE ARE MANY HIRED, WHO WERE HOME SCHOOLED, YOU ARE AGAIN, FACTULLY WRONG! ————————————————————————————————————————————IT SEEMS YOU LIKE BEING WRONG AS YOU ARE SO FREQUENTLY.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Nope.
                      Someone taught them verbal language and someone taught them at least to recognize and verbalize the sound of the letters.

                      Home schoolers have parents who benefitted from society.
                      Sorry. You really don’t understand this argument, son.

                      LOL
                      I haven’t been wrong about anything, son. Not on this thread.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YOU VARNEY, ARE THE KIND OF CHRISTIAN WHO CAUSES THE MORE RATIONAL, LOGICAL AND INTELLIGENT CHRISTIANS TO QUESTION THEIR RELIGION. ————————————————————————————————————————————–ONCE THEY DO SO, THEY ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY TO BECOMING ONE MORE OF THE MANY, MANY MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS, WHO HAVE LEFT THEIR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ON THE TRASH PILE OF HISTORY ALONG ALL THE OTHER B.S. RELIGIONS.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YEP, JAMES, WHEN RELIGION IS NOT MESSING UP YOUR MIND, YOU ARE RIGHT. HE IS AN IDIOT EXCEPT ABOUT RELIGION.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      There is no such thing as a “self made man”.

                      Most rich people are born wealthy.
                      Those that aren’t make it because of socialism. The roads and bridges they drive on, the public school educated workers they hire, protection from fires, environmental pollution, protection from fraud and theft, the postal service, the internet, the food subsidized by tax money, the vaccines from government labs, the sewage systems, the court systems, subsidized electricity from dams built with government money…….

                      Only a dick would claim that they didn’t get help from the rest of us and only a dick would refuse to pay their fair share.

                  • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                    OH YOU POOR LITTLE THING, CRY CRY, BEING ROBBED INSTEAD OF GETTING OFF YOUR ASS AND DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO BE PART OF THE ONE PENCENT.
                    YOU NEED TO WATCH “SHARK TANK”, OR “HOW I MADE MY MILLIONS” “AMERICAN MAKER” OR THE VARIOUS OTHER TV SHOWS WHICH PROVE HOW MANY, MANY WHO WERE NOT BORN RICH, BECAME RICH.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hilarious.

                      If you were a one percenter you wouldn’t be posting here.
                      I’m betting you’re on a government pension-taking advantage of socialism while railing against it.
                      Cute.

                      Yup, goober, any one can be part of the one percent.
                      All they have to do is work hard.
                      That’s why day laborers are all rich. //

                      The shows you mention are plute propaganda, fool, specifically engineered to perpetuate the Horatio Alger, American dream lie.

                      If you’re so smart, why ain’t ya rich, son?

                    • Merrill Clark

                      LOL
                      I can put it into a syllogism for you if you want it that way.

                      One percenters don’t waste time ranting on internet blogs.

                      Okaaaaaaayyyyy then…
                      Poor people, yourself included, are both stupid and lazy.
                      Got it.

                      For every Bill Gates there are 300 million people who work hard their entire lives and end up with virtually nothing.
                      Lottery economics.

                      “I AM NOT RICH SIMPLY BECAUSE I DID NOT MAKE BEING RICH A PRIORITY!”

                      LOL
                      But here you are telling the poor to pull themselves up by their own boot straps.

                      The odds of you being a hypocrite are so high as to make it a virtual certainty.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      THE ODDS YOU ARE LOW LIFE PUNK AND A TOTAL ASSHOLE ARE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            IT WOULD SEMM SO.

        • Merrill Clark

          I love the repug idea of “jesus”.
          Ted Nugent with a halo. LOL

          Your “holy” book claims your “jesus” palled around with prostitutes and thieves, son.
          Have you even read it?

          • James Varney

            He asked the whores to repent, and the tax collectors stopped their tax collecting and followed Him. Your revisionist Bible stories are nothing but morally-depraved lies meant to bolster your own warped, totalitarian views.

            • Merrill Clark

              LOL
              A whore who repents is still a whore, son.

              And there’s this:

              Matthew 22:20-22

              You really have no idea what’s in your “holy” book.
              You don’t know who wrote it either.

              “Revisionist”?

              Nope.
              I’ve read it cover to cover and either it’s meant to be taken literally or it’s all metaphor.

              Which is it?

              And what is more “totalitarian” than a theocracy, you complete and utter imbecile?

              • James Varney

                “I’ve read it cover to cover and either it’s meant to be taken literally or it’s all metaphor.”

                You’re arrogant and retarded. A terrible combination. The Bible is not an “either/or” proposition. Some books are metaphorical, some are documentary. Some are poetry, some are prose, some are (gasp!) fiction.
                Jesus taught in parables. Do they fit into your “either/or” binary?

                Reading something “cover to cover” isn’t something to brag about if you don’t have any ability to understand what you are reading.

                • James Varney

                  “All the hemming and hawing of Jerome, Irenaeus and Aquinas et al isn’t worth spit.”

                  Otay. You’ve really gotten yourself worked up now. I think you need some “time out” to think over your responses and cool off a little.

                  • Merrill Clark

                    LOL

                    All three that I purposely mentioned had agendas, fool.

                    Educate yourself.

                    BTW, numb nutz, I find it hilarious that you leveled an accusation of totalitarianism at me and then in the next post claimed to “favor and aristocracy”.

                    Arrogant and retarded.
                    LOL
                    Physician heal thyself.

                    ……and if this is your A game, we’re pretty much done here.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      HE CAN’T “HEAL HIMSELF” CUS HE PROGRAMMED!

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Your cap lock is stuck.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      HOPE YOU DID NOT STRAIN YOUR BRAIN FIGURING THAT OUT. AND NO, IT IS NOT STUCK, I USE IT AS I AMK 81 AND I LIKE SEEING WHAT I WRITE EASIER.

                • James Varney

                  Watching you devolve from semi-human to Shoggoth was as frightening as it was entertaining. Adios!

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  YO ROBOT, ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHICH HAS CAUSED MANY CHRISTIANS TO FIRST BECOME FORMER CHRISTIANS AND THEN TO BECOME ATHEISTS, WAS THEIR CAREFULLY READING THE BIBLE FROM FRONT TO BACK COVER.

                  • Martin G.

                    Neil, are you still at it, old crank? “ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHICH HAS CAUSED MANY FORMER ATHEISTS TO BECOME CHRISTIANS, WAS THEIR CAREFULLY READING THE BIBLE FROM FRONT TO BACK COVER”. It’s easy for you to support a non-existent point when you only select 1% of the available information. What type of meds did you say you are using?

                    • Martin G.

                      You missed my point entirely, old madman. If you derive your meaning of life from the mistakes of others, then you are like a boat without a rudder. Millions have read the Bible and have gone on to perform monumental achievements. But you take the actions of a few tragic reprobates to inform your eternal destiny? It doesn’t get much more misguided than that. You need help.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YES MARTIN — MULTI MILLIONS WHO HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED AS BABIES, CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS TO BELIEVE THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION AND THE CHRISTIAN GOD THE ONLY REAL GOD WHO HAVE DONE GREAT THINGS,

                      ONLY IT IS YOU WHO MISS THE POINT!

                      POINT ONE, NEARLY ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DONE GREAT THINGS HAD THEY NOT HAD AN RELIGION PROGRAMMED INTO THEM!

                      POINT TWO, AS WE ATHEISTS ARE EITHER THE LEADERS AND/OR AMONG THE LEADERS IN EVERY POSITIVE FIELD, IT PROVES NO RELIGION AND NO GODS ARE NEED TO SUCCEED,

                      POINT THREE, AS WE ATHEISTS ARE EITHER THE LEADERS AND/OR AMONG THE LEADERS IN EVERY POSITIVE FIELD,IT MAKES ONE WONDER IF ATHEISTS ARE NOT MORE INTELLIGENT AND PHYSICALLY STRONGER THAN A RE BELIEVERS AS WE NEED NO GODS HELP TO SUCCEED AS WELL AND IN MANY CASES, TO SUCCEED BETTER THAN YOU PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS DO!

                    • Watch the language.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      SORRY, MY TEMPER SOMETIMES GETS THE BEST OF ME. SO I APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE OTHER INNOCENT READERS.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      You first, fool.

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  MERRILL, I HOPE YOU READ MY REPLIES TO THIS POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          CHRIST YOU POOR DELUDED ROBOT, DID NO SUCH THING AS CHRIST, IS TOTAL FICTION!

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      AS MULTI-MILLIONS OF OTHER FORMER CHRISTIANS AND OVER 600 FORMER CHRISTIAN MINISTERS ALL KNOW, ALL YOUR IDIOT COMMENT PROVE IS THAT YOU ARE A TYPICAL PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN WHOSE RELIGIOUS PROGRAMMING IS SO STRONG IT, ON THE SUBJECT OF YOUR OWN RELIGIONM SIMPLY AND TOTALLY OVERRIDES ANY ABILITIES YOU MAY HAVE TO THINK LOGICALLY AND RATIONALLY. P

      • Merrill Clark

        Neil,

        No one is going to take you seriously until you stop typing in all caps.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          YOU ARE LOGICALLY AND FACTUALLY WRONG AS ALL TRULY RATIONAL, INFORMED, INTELLIGENT AND LOGICAL PEOPLE KNOW NEITHER THE USE OF ALL CAPS OR THE SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT AS LONG AS THE INFORMATION IS VALID.

          • Merrill Clark

            Social conventions exist.
            Ignore then at your own peril.

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              AS I HAVE BEEN IGNORING THEM FOR 81 YEARS, YOUR WARNING IS TOTAL B.S.

              • Merrill Clark

                Sorry…I can’t hear you.

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  THE WRITTEN WORD CHILD, MAKES NO SOUND! ONLY IT SEEMS YOU ARE TOO IGNORANT TO KNOW SUCH SIMPLE AND WIDELY KNOWN FACT.

                  • Merrill Clark

                    Only the hysterical use all caps online.
                    Communicate like an adult and I might continue responding.

                    • Wow. You guys are really going at it. Speaking of socialism. Don’t forget to read: http://www.listland.com/10-things-everyone-should-understand-about-socialism/

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Sorry, the trolls that I troll follow me here from other sites.

                      I read your socialism list.
                      I would comment but I’m not going to waste my effort only to end up being censored.

                      Flame wars are good for clicks, no?

                    • m Cummings

                      Hello Troll

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Hello yourself…..

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              OPPS, MY ERROR. I HAVE BEEN IGNORING THEM FOR THE LAST 60 OF MY 81 YEARS. FOR INSTANCE, AGNOSTIC ATHEIST ACTIVISTS LIKE ME MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY SOCIAL CONVENTIONS.

              • Merrill Clark

                (Puts fingers in ears….leaves.)

                • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                  THE TRUTH IS THE TRULY LOGICAL, RATIONAL INFORMED & INTELLIGENT ACCEPT MY USE OF ALL CAPS.

                  • Merrill Clark

                    LOL

                    There you go again-assuming you have the truth when all you have is an opinion.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      NOT AN OPINION, IT IS A FACT! A FACT MANY OF MY FACEBOOK FRIENDS, WHO ARE LOGICAL, RATIONAL, INFORMED AND INTELLIGENT WILL ATTEST TO. —————————————————————————————– THUS, YOU ARE AGAIN, PROVEN WRONG!

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Can’t be “proven wrong again” when there was no previous instance.

                      And your friends are either humoring you or are old folk as out of touch as you yourself seem to be.
                      Hardly a representative sample in either case.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO KNOW.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Bare assertion.
                      Google it.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      PISS OFF LOSER!

                    • Merrill Clark

                      You first, fool.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      SOCIALISM IS FOR LOSERS LIKE YOU WHILE CAPITALISM IS FOR WINNERS LIKE ZUCKERBURG, BUFFET, STALONE, GATES, LISTLAND AND MULTI-MILLIONS OF OTHERS WHO KNOW THE AMERICAN DREAM IS POSSIBLE AS THEY HAVE, OR ARE REACHING IT. .

                    • Merrill Clark

                      Yup, anyone who doesn’t agree with you must, simply must be stupid. //

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      JUST ANOTHER STUPID STATMENT FROM YOU. THOSE LIKE YOU, WHO CONTINUE TO DO, AND/OR SAY, STUPID THINGS, ARE, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, EFFECTIVELY, STUPID!

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      AND, IT SEEMS YOU ARE UNABLE TO GRASP THAT YOU SHOULD NOT ENTER INTO “BATTLES OF WITS” WHEN YOU ARE BOTH SO UNDERARMED AS WELL AS OVER MATCHED.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      FFS
                      I haven’t heard that “zinger” since 1982.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      AND EVEN AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, YOU STILL HAVE NOT LEARNED.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      What’s to learn?
                      It’s still as dim witted now as it was then plus it’s dated/stale/boring.

                    • Merrill Clark

                      And again you prove my point unwittingly.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      SHOW THESE EXCHANGES TO OTHERS WHO ARE LOGICAL RATIONAL INTELLIGENT AND INFOMED AND SEE IF THEY AGREE WITH YOU OR ME. — IF YOU DO, I WILL BET YOU LOSER, WOULD LOSE.

                    • Firefly

                      Urs however hav been one of th v. few all caps I’ve read all of

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      HELLO FIREFLY, THANK YOU. IF YOU ARE A FACEBOOK PERSON, PLEASE CHECK OUT MY NEIL C REINHARDT PAGE, AND IF YOU LIKE IT. PLEASE FRIEND ME. 🙂

                    • Lee

                      Preach on Neil…who are you trying to convince? Me….or yourself??

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      I DO NOT HAVE TO CONVINCE MYSELF OF TRUTHS. TRUTHS JUST ARE!

                    • Lee

                      And the truth is that man is the result of genetic engineering by a highly advanced race that needed slave labor to plunder the earths gold thousands of years ago.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      PROVE IT!

                    • Lee

                      Prove your god is real.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      YO STUPID, I AM AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST ACTIVIST,. AND I HAVE NO GOD!

                    • Lee

                      People of low intelligence always resort to name calling when their pea brain cannot produce a rational argument.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      WHILE THE ODDS OF YOU BEING ABLE TO MATCH MY GENERAL EXPERIENCE ARE ABOUT ZERO, THE ODDS OF YOUR MATCHING MY HIGH EFFECTIVE I.Q. ARE LESS THAN TWO PERCENT.

                    • Lee Wells

                      If it makes feel vindicated or superior Neil, I put my name on the profile because I do not have to hide behind a screen name either. Nor do I feel the need to curse and belittle anyone who has a different opinion from mine because isn’t that what a coward would do? Have a blessed day Neil.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      PAT YOUSELF ON THE BACK YOU POOR DELUDED PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      AND THE ODDS OF YOU BEING ABLE TO PROVE ME TO BE LOGICALLY AND/OR FACTUALLY WRONG ON ANY SUBJECT I COMMENT ON ARE ABOUT ZERO!

                    • Timebandit66

                      Goodbye Neil. I was looking for a good lively debate but you sir are full of hate and have an incredible problem with the manner which you express yourself to others. I pity you.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE DEBATES WITH PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIANS BECAUSE ON THE SUBJECT OF THEIR OWN RELIGION, THEY DENY FACTS, DO NOT USE LOGIC OR RATIONAL AND CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS.

                    • Lee

                      And please enlighten me with your theory of mankinds true origin. I am honestly interested in your opinion.

                    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

                      CHEMICALS AND ELECTRICAL ENERGY STARTED IT, TIME AND EVOLUTION CONTINUED IT.

                    • m Cummings

                      Prove it wrong ?

          • m Cummings

            Another person who loves to ignore the truth

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          AND MANY TAKE MY COMMENTS SERIOUSLY AS I AM KNOWN BY THOSE WHO KNOW ME WELL AS BEING ONE OF, IF NOT THE SINGLE MOST TRUTHFUL PERSON THEY KNOW,
          AND AS I AM NOT ONLY MUCH MORE GENERALLY EXPERIENCED, AS WELL AS MORE GENERALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN ARE MOST MY AGE OF EIGHTY.

          • Merrill Clark

            Leave the caps lock off.

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              NO

              • Merrill Clark

                Then expect to be ignored.

          • Merrill Clark

            It’s just a social convention, son. Most readers consider it rude.

            • NEIL C. REINHARDT

              FOLLOWED BY THE SHEEP LIKE YOU

  • Lee

    I believe that Jesus was a real person but am inclined to believe that he was an ordinary man who saw that there was an easy living to be made by fleecing the ignorant rural population by means of religion and the universal belief that one can buy ones way into heaven.The establishment of the time dealt with him in a similar manner to the way the F.B.I and the A.T.F. dealt with David Koresh in Waco,Texas. Possibly Evangelism just paid a little better than wood bench building.. So you head to Egypt looking for work and learn a few well known sleight of hand tricks from the court magicians such as casting out spirits and pulling a fish from a empty basket and you’re in business.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      YOU BELIEVE IT BASED ON WHAT SECULAR EVIDENCE? WHY IS THERE NOT ONE DOCUMENT FROM THOSE LIVING AT THE TIME WHICH WOULD GIVE YOU EVIDENCE HE WAS REAL

      • Palomey Myers

        Secular evidence? You mean independent, unbiased, fair, true and accurate? IOW, when a writer for the NYTs, who is religious, writes an article on a topic, it must be inaccurate? As if that proves Christ wasn’t real, applying your logic.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          YOUR LOGIC, LIKE YOUR JESUS AND YOUR GOD, ARE TOTALLY NON-EXISTENT!

          • Ex Tempore

            …good show!

      • Roberta13

        Neither are there any contemporary writings, eyewitness accounts, or archeological evidence for Hannibal. So, are we to assume that the greatest military leader of Carthage was not real?

      • Ex Tempore

        ..there is NOT a shred of evidence, from ANY source, that Jesus existed!

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      AND COMPARING HIM TO A WELL DOCUMENTED PERSON LIKE KORESH IS ILLOGICAL AND IRRATIONAL.

  • Merrill Clark

    Okay, listland.
    You’re going to censor me for a pretty pleasant, non-obscenity using post.

    ‘Bye.

  • NEIL C. REINHARDT

    THE AUTHOR OF THIS DID NOT MENTION THE TWO PARAGRAPHS ABOUT JESUS IN Josephus Flavius WRITINGS WERE OUT OF CONTEXT WITH BOTH THE PRECEEDING AND FOLLOWING PARAGRAPHS. OR THEY WERE NOT WRTTEN IN Josephus Flavius STYLE OF WRITING. THUS, THE ONLY LOGUCAL CONCLUSION IS THOSE TWO NPARAGRAPHS ARE SIMPLY FORGERIES AND WERE ADDED TO Josephus Flavius WRITTINGS AT A LATER DATE.

    • What’s with all the caps?

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        FIRST, I USE “ALL CAPS” AS I AM EIGHTY-ONE (81) SO I CAN SEE WHAT I AM WRITING MUCH MORE EASILY.
        AS ANY LOGICAL RATIONAL AND INTELLIGENT PERSON KNOWS, WRITING SOMETHING WHICH, AS CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE, COMMUNICATES YOUR VIEWS, REQUIRES BOTH MORE TIME AND CARE THAN SIMPLY READING WHAT OTHERS HAVE WRITTEN.

        SECOND, NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO READ ONE WORD OF MY ALL CAPS POST.

        THIRD, AS I HAVE FOUND ALL CAPS TEND TO PISS OFF THE LESS INTELLIGENT, THE ILLOGICAL, THE IRRATIONAL AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT, I LIKE THEM!,

        • Firefly

          I understand th desire to use all bc caps as motivated by th desire to be seen. BUT th problem with using all caps is that u cannot give extra special emphasis to anything. It’s all th same. A person can write any way they for any reason, IDC. I tend to bypass all caps after I’ve gotten th gist of what that person is saying n ppl refer to read th BETTER written forms. Jes sayin.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            YOU ARE WRONG AS MY USE OF ALL CAPS IS NOT CAUSED BY THE DERSIRE FOR OTHERS TO SEE MY COMMENTS.
            RATHER, AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID ABOVE, THEY ARE SO I CAN MORE EASILY SEE WHAT I AM WRITTING.
            THOSE WHO CARE TO READ MY COMMENTS WILL, AND THOSE WHO NOT, WILL NOT.
            OF COURSE, AS I AM BOTH MUCH MORE GENERALLY EXPERIENCED AND MORE GENERALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN ARE MOST MY AGE ON 81 AS WELL AS HAVING AN EFFECTIVE IQ WHICH IS IN THE TOP TWO PERCENT, AND “ACING” LOGIC TESTS, THEIR NOT READING MY COMMENTS IS THEIR LOSS.

        • Jdjdfhhf

          One of your reasons to use all caps is that No one has to read it, what?

    • billyblaq

      Yeah. Personally, I feel if we were an educated nation, we’d already know that in the Age of Reason they had already discovered that Josephus’s “Testimonium Flavian” was fake.

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        SO TRUE, SO TRUE!

      • Ex Tempore

        …yes, Thomas Paine (Age of Reason), also proved that the biblical Jesus Christ NEVER existed!

  • NEIL C. REINHARDT

    SO SAYS MARTIN G. ONE OF THE MOST PROGRAMMED CHRISTIAN ROBOTS IT EVER BEEN MY DISPLEASURE TO KNOW OF. A PERSON WHO SIMPLY DENIES ANY LOGIC OR FACTS WHICH DO NOT AGREE WITH HIS PROGRAMMING. ONE WHO SAYS OTHERS SAY THINGS THEY HAVE NOT SAID.

  • Palomey Myers

    No one has offered any evidence to support their faith in Jesus didn’t exist.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      DUH! NO ONE IS SAYING SOME DO NOT, OR DID NOT, HAVE “FAITH” IN JESUS. THE POINT, CHILD, IS JESUS IS PURE FICTION! AND THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IS A TOTAL CON JOB!

      • Ex Tempore

        …good show!

  • Palomey Myers

    Odd, isn’t it, the concerted effort on the part of a few, to try to disprove something that isn’t and never was. The work, the energy, the time, the burning desire and total dedication (obsession) to attempt to deny what is not.

    Nice big fat clue, isn’t it? I suppose if there was no merit to his claims, it might not demand the same passion to try to discredit him and his followers. Who freaks out over Santa or Bozo?

    • Quark Spark

      People aren’t trying to control other people’s live with Bozo or Santa. That’s why the effort goes into it. And we know Santa is myth, but yet people still believe in this other mythological being.

      It frustrates the people who actually value truth.

  • Palomey Myers

    Sungod stuff sounds a lot like that Murdock chick, the dead one. I doubt she’s dead. She probably used her bout with cancer as a ruse to con money out of people for her own fun. I bet she’s still around trying to prove the same bull.

    • That theory is retarded and insane. In other words, more plausible than most of Murdock’s theories.

  • Lee

    It is my firm belief that Jesus is a myth just as all religions are based on. In truth mankind is the result of genetic engineering by a highly advanced race who visited Earth many eons in the past,and they needed slave labor to mine the earths gold deposits.

  • David

    What kind of garbage is this, does anyone actually fact check anything they post online?
    About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly.
    He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about
    him.
    And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
    – Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63
    (Based on the translation of Louis H. Feldman,
    The Loeb Classical Library.)

    • Ex Tempore

      ..the writings of Josephus (who was born 70 years after the purported Jesus Christ and NEVER even knew him!), surfaced around the 4th century CE!
      ….he talks about christians, not Christ, which was a common name of the time–such as George or William is today!

  • Ex Tempore

    “No one knows if this Jesus Christ existed, and if he did, NOTHING is known about him!”
    “WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN” Bertrand Russell 1928

  • hotopr

    Good News Everyone; Jesus IS alive and wants to save you, whatever you did wicked in your live. He did a extreme generous thing for you (and me), he gave us the real freedom, the real peace.
    Decide, if you want to live with or without him. Be a winner on the side of the greatest man of all or loose everything.

    The old or first testament tells us EXACTLY, when the Messiahs will come before he came. So this is a proven fact, because nobody knows the future but god alone. God told Daniel the moment (BTW: Evolution has no future, all is coincidence. But why are we so social? Evolution is not social?).

    So, this proof can be found in Daniel 9. There is written, that the Messiahs will be eradicated after sixty-two weeks from Daniels time on (you need some very good knowledge to study this. Better ask a specialist and Christ in this).

    I will make it easy for you, this points EXACTLY to 31 AD!!
    It was not possible later, because the temple was no more! (another bible passage).

    Study this phrase, study that book called Bible. You will not find any real mistake in it because It is the word of god.

    God is not bad, he is the full mercifulness in person. He knows, that we are proud and we don’t want to have a god over us. Fill Your emptiness inside of YOU with him and you are free and receive his deep shalom.

    Blaise Pascal:“There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every person, and it can never be filled by any created thing. It can only be filled by God, made known through Jesus Christ.”

    Your only chance, which was mine too: Repent your sins and lay down your pride. Turn your heart to god and his ONLY son Jesus. This is the only way you can get saved.

    And also John the baptist was there, talking about the messiah in John 1:
    He said, “I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”

    So check that too.

    And this is directed to you also:”Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

    Who has to repent? – You..
    What you have to repent? – Your wicked ways.
    Why? – to get back to the creator, the architect, the master of everything.

    There is a way, god forgives until you are a living being.

    • Great comment!

    • Sandra Shaw

      Jesus is real and he is Lord!!!!!!!!!

      • Quark Spark

        Jesus is Lore… There I fixed it.

      • John King

        Zeus was real for millions of people. Where is Zeus now?

    • Quark Spark

      Apparently you haven’t read the bible.

      • hotopr

        I Did and I do. You should do that too. Bring me some evidence for your phrase, or what bring yourself to this statement

        • Quark Spark

          Well first off, IF Jesus existed at all, he is no longer alive. Not in any sense we would call “alive”. And not in any way that you could affirm or prove. So there is your first error.

          If we go by what the bible says, he did not give anyone freedom or peace. Freedom is not granted by anyone other than yourself or your slavemaster. He certainly did not bring peace. If you believe the bible, then I reference you to the following scripture:

          Matthew 10:34-36 – Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

          That doesn’t sound very peaceful to me.

          Next, you don’t exactly sound like a historian, so I am pretty sure you DON’T know how they used weeks. I don’t even think historians would agree with you. The standard seven-day week has been used for about 4000 years. Which throws your numbers way off.

          In the time of Daniel they were using the seven-day week. 62 weeks is 1 year and 3.5 months…. NOT 31 years. Not even close for a margin of error.

          You also said, “Study this phrase, study that book called Bible. You will not find any real mistake in it because It is the word of god.”
          Um there are multiple mistakes, contradictions, and errors contained in the text of the bible.

          Here are a few resources that you can use to compare with your own bible.
          http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

          Here is even a nice visual of all of the contradictions and the verses they cite.
          http://bibviz.com/

          Furthermore, there is no stratigraphic, geological, dendrochronological, or archeological evidence of a worldwide flood. NONE. Flooding leaves very significant and tell-tale signs in the strata and dendra. There are records of civilizations that have continuous history through the supposed timeframe of this flood. So either they somehow fabricated multiple civilizations worth of history or the flood never happened as it was described in the bible. All the evidence point to the flood never happened. I have actually seen the evidence myself. So this isn’t coming from someone else.

          “God is not bad, he is the full mercifulness in person.”
          Except when he is bad and not merciful.
          Mind if I send a few verses your way about how God orders condones and approves slavery, rape and murder? Thanks. I think I will.

        • Quark Spark

          Well I made quite a decent length response for you, refuting, the first part of your message, but it is waiting to be approved. Probably because of the links I included.

          So I will continue from where I left off there.

          “”God is not bad, he is the full mercifulness in person.”
          Except when he is bad and not merciful.
          Mind if I send a few verses your way about how God orders condones and approves slavery, rape and murder? Thanks. I think I will.”

          Let us take a look shall we?
          SLAVERY:
          Exodus 21:20-21 Commands you on how to own your slaves. and how to beat them
          Ephesians 6:5 Specifically telling slave to obey their masters. This sure doesn’t sound like freeing slaves to me.
          1 Timothy 6:1-2
          Luke 12:47-48 In this parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating your slaves.
          Leviticus 25:44 – Buy your slaves from the heathen nations around you

          MURDER:
          Deuteronomy 17:12 – Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
          Exodus 22:17 – Kill Witches
          Leviticus 20:13 – Kill Homosexuals. What were you saying about hating homosexuals? You shouldn’t hate them, right? You should just kill them according to your lovely little book here.
          Leviticus 20:27 – Kill Fortunetellers
          Proverbs 20:20, Leviticus 20:9 – Death for Cursing Parents
          Leviticus 20:10 – Death for Adultery
          Leviticus 21:9 – Death for Fornication
          Exodus 22:19 – Death to Followers of Other Religions
          2 Chronicles 15:12-13 – Kill Nonbelievers
          Zechariah 13:3 – Kill False Prophets
          Deuteronomy 13:13-19 – Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
          Deuteronomy 22:20-21 – Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
          Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 – Kill Followers of Other Religions
          Leviticus 24:10-16 – Death for Blasphemy
          Deuteronomy 13:1-5, Deuteronomy 18:20-22 – Kill False Prophets
          Romans 1:24-32 – Infidels and Gays Should Die
          Numbers 1:48-51 – Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
          Exodus 31:12-15 – Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

          Oh yeah not to mention all the times God murdered for the stupidest reasons.

          GOD MURDER:
          2 Kings 2:23-24 – God Kills smart-ass Children
          1Samuel 6:19-20 – God Kills the Curious
          1 Kings 20:35-36 – God kills with a lion
          2 Samuel 6:3-7 – Remember Uzzah, the good samaritan? Yeah God killed him too.
          Exodus 23:23 – God sends an angel to murder

          And then there are these gems.
          Hosea 9:11-16
          Isaiah 14:21
          Ezekiel 9:5-7
          Exodus 12:29-30
          Leviticus 26:21-22
          Isaiah 13:15-18

          GOD APPROVED MURDERS:
          Judges 15:14-15
          Acts 5:1-11
          1 Samuel 15:2-3
          Jeremiah 48:10
          Joshua 19:47
          Ezekiel 35:7-9
          Joshua 8:1-29
          Joshua 6:20-21 – Bye Bye Jericho
          1 Kings 14:9-16
          Judges 20:48
          2 Kings 19:35
          Exodus 32:26-29
          Joshua 7:19-26
          Numbers 25:1-9
          1 Kings 18:36-40
          Jeremiah 50:21-22 Bye Bye Babylon
          Judges 18:27-29 – Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6

          RAPE:
          Judges 21:10-24 – God-approved Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead
          Numbers 31:7-18 – God-approved Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites
          Deuteronomy 20:10-14 – More Murder Rape and Pillage
          Deuteronomy 22:28-29 – Laws of rape
          Deuteronomy 22:23-24 – Death to the Rape Victim, hmm more murder too.
          Deuteronomy 21:10-14 – Rape of Female Captives
          Judges 5:30 – Rape and the Spoils of War
          Exodus 21:7-11 – Slavery and Rape all in one, Selling your daughter as sex property
          Zechariah 14:1-2 – God Assisted Rape and Plunder

        • Quark Spark

          Trust me I have plenty more of how the bible is wrong. But I think I have given enough for you to deal with for now. Let me know if you need further correction.

          • hotopr

            1/3
            The cross has been misunderstood so often. You heard that Jesus carried the cross for us (to build a new way between us and his father). Then he died (innocent) and then he arises (!) from the death. This is the tricky point. Its very hard to understand, for what that was needed (..if it was possible at all). But fact is, no other person before was able to arise! He built back the bridge to the father.

            Jesus is not alive anymore? There were more than 500 people which saw him after his death.
            Some of them touched him, some saw how he ate, they heard him talk. Yes he was/is able to do some special things, like to appear and disappear. Nowadays, Lots of people, especially muslim people in oriental states, dream of a man in white clothes which tells the person to be with him.

            If you do not believe in Jesus, challenge god, for everything he said. Is it the truth or not?

            Jesus‘ live is one of the best documented event in history (I don‘t prove that now) just one thing: the opposite team wants Jesus to die. They hate Jesus so much, that they really want him to die. If he should be death right now, whats the matter with that?
            (Maybe you should learn about the other side. Please go youtube and search for Roger Morneau Supernatural if you are interested, he told us, how the opposite team works.)

            Freedom or Peace: what is freedom? To be independent from everyone? To live in the forrest only with foxes and weasels? As I speak of me, I am not independent, I need to do a job, to be a small part in a machinery. Acutally I can say, I am something like a slave in a machinery. Where is peace on earth? Never will there peace on earth, because the world is fallen. This has its root in the first sin on earth in garden eden. God nows that, so he offers us a way back to him.

            But for Matthew 10 34-36: Jesus tells us here, that your discipleship can cost you your family, your loved ones. Maybe they want understand why you did this decision to follow Jesus and cannot think of a good bargain. Maybe they tell you what a fool you are.

          • hotopr

            2/3
            Yes, I am not a historian, but for that calculating thing of the 70 Yearweeks on Daniel 9 I mentioned, that it is complicate.

            Prestep: Numeri 14,34 there is a declaration about those yearweeks: For forty years—one year for each of the forty days you explored the land
            Another verse: Revelation 11,2-3: but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

            So 1 day can be 1 year, explained by THEBOOK.
            BTW: Im using a german bible (Schlachter), so it may differ from your source.

            Okay, now to the daniel statement:
            Dan 9,26 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.
            [and]
            Dan 9,27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.
            (?Here you notice, that is written: ..one week, and for a half week. Why not one and a half week?)

            We got 62 weeks, we got one week and a half week
            Now we turn that into prophetic yearweeks because of Numeri 14,34 and Revelation 11,2-3:

            1. Startdate from Neh 2, Nisan (March/April) 445 BC.
            2. 7 + 62Yearweeks = 69 Yearweeks
            3. 69 Yearweeks x 360 days = 173880 days
            This points to ? 32 AD (I wrote 31 AD in my first post)

            Errors in bible: There are some misunderstandings, copying errors in the bible.
            Some question from that link from infidels.
            First statement:
            GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
            GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn’t created until the fourth day.

            ME>Please read Revelation 21,23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.
            GE 1:3-5 God created light. I just ask you, was this the sun? – No, it was not!

            Next one, this one is harder to solve.
            GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
            GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

            ME>Here we must read in the context. Actually, there are two reports about the creation. The first one was the report about the seven days. The second one begins in GE 2,4 from a different view.
            In the first report the trees were built before man.
            Then in the second report in Ge 2,6 is written about the mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground.

            Now, we switch in GE 2,7 to the man.
            After that some trees grew a little later. Yes right.
            But this was the description of THE GARDEN.
            So god created 1st the man, then 2nd planted that garden and some trees after the man.
            But there were some trees outside the garden too before the man.

            We can discuss all those questions if you want. Maybe I cannot answer some, but some I surely can.

            BTW, thank you for that visual connection map. This is nice.

            Wordwide flood. Please youtube and use veith and flood for explanation. Overall the world are some evidences to find. Funny looking stones and objects lined up in the flow direction.
            THE Problem is: Science cannot accept the flood because that will prove, that god is right in the bible. So the evolution cannot be a more than a theory.
            The flood lasted a little bit longer than 1 year.
            Could you send me an evidence of a civilization which has survived that time?
            I claim that age determination probably cannot be as precisely as a year for this period.
            On the other way, please watch those video on youtube to see some very good evidence for a possible flood.

          • hotopr

            3/3
            And now reasons, that god is not bad.

            You have to read the whole phrase, and BEFORE and AFTER.
            This is a common mistake by bible-readers. This Exodus 21 story starts in verse 1.

            You: Exodus 21:20-21 Commands you on how to own your slaves. and how to beat them
            ME: Ex 21:20-20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
            This is a protection, so that a master doesn‘t strike his slave. This could be this nowadays: god is building a union for slaves(=working people) that protects them from theirs sometimes bad masters (=companies).
            You may notice, that there was no security thousand of years before. Slavery is not good at all, but it guaranteed a community, dinner and shelter. Better slave then dead. There are some stories, that slaves became good friends of the masters and also free people. Some of them decided to stay in that slave-role for the rest of their life:
            Deu 15,17 then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave3 forever. And to your female slave4 you shall do the same.

            Ex 21,2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,1 he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing
            You see, in this slavery there is a chance to get free after six years. Today lots of people are slaves and I don’t want to know how long. Indian/Pakistani Workers are working in SaudiArabia for little money. But first they have to work for the depts which consist of the flight to SaudiArabia. This is slavery today.

            The question in my last section is the following: do you think, all the people in the bible did what god wanted they would do? – No, the bible is the unvarnished documentation what happened.
            Good things did happen and also very sadly things (rape, death, murderer and so on).
            Do you think god is happy about the sad things? – I can tell you, he is not.
            Why all this? Well, he made us unique. Men can decide to do good or bad things. This is the will, he has given us. He designed us very good, but it is also possible to make a decision against him, which is very sad. On the other hand this free will is the only option to find out, if someone loves some other by his free will.. like the tree in the garden in Exodus.

            I would encourage you, dear Quark Spark (and others too) not to stop searching the truth and the real meaning of life and whats up after that life. Gods doors are open wide whatever you did, god is greater as every bad thing you think is so big in your life.

          • John King

            Christians: If you can make Friday evening to Sunday morning equal to three days then I will become a Christian! I make it a day and a half at best.

    • Terran

      He is not alive Wake up

      • hotopr

        I am sure that he is alive.
        He told it himself and it was a prophecy written down a prophet through GOD himself.
        You better try to get in contact with Jesus to find out, what’s important in your life.

  • O JERUSALEM, JERUSALEM, YOU THAT KILL THE PROPHETS, AND STONE THEM WHICH ARE SENT TO YOU, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, YOU SHALL NOT SEE ME FROM NOW ON, TILL YOU SHALL SAY, BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. – Matthew 23:37-39

    And after three score and two weeks shall MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are determined. – Daniel 9:26

    • Something about chicken? The rest was pops and buzzes.

    • Sean Palmer

      Man Christian circular logic is hilarious! In no part during your vacant ramblings did you bring up any new evidence. You can’t use sayings from the bible to prove the bibles validity. There is zero emptiness in me. Except for when I can’t ride my motorcycle. Poor, lost, easily manipulated people just don’t understand. Too blind to reality. If “Jesus” is alive, where is he? Why does he allow children to starve to death? Why does he allow cancer and disease to run rampant? Oh, because he and god aren’t real. We’re here alone, so lets all work together and not let the planet implode.

  • Yaffa Brautigam

    It is amazing to me, then, that all those followers who knew him suffered horrible deaths for their beliefs. Do you really think ANYONE would die for a lie?

    • Bill

      Have you heard about this group ISIS?

      • Dragon BallZ

        ISIS has killed and is still killing many before they die.

  • Jon HaGoy

    Anno domini the year of our lord who was Juius Caesar according to the Romans.
    New emperor ,New sun / son of God ,the God of the Sun ,new calender ,.So when Julius Caesar .So a new calender. Problem for xians is Julius Caesar was born before the new calender the julian calender .Later another papal Calender was used the Gregorion claender the one we use now .Egypt also struck new calenders with a new Pharaoh ,problem was their was a Northern Kingdom of Egypt and a Southern Kingdom of Egypt so two calenders,now didn’t that play havoc with history two Pharaoh’s both claiming to be the reincarnation of the Sun God .As Japan did and many other countries .Japan worshiped the emporer as the Reincarnation of the Sun God as well .
    Jesus (a Greek name ) was said to be a Nazerine not from Nazareth .One is a place name the other is an order the followers of which took vows not to drink ,not to cut their hair ,to be celbrate.Like Monks do today in Asia.Sounds the same but is not the same .Lord in english means master but xians refer to their man as Lord when they claim he is God .In Hebrew they are two different words .Bad translation causes problems .
    I was a xain when I was young but studied enough to see the errors Rome used to control the people and which most all xian churches pay homage too .Including Sunday Worship instead of the Holy God given Sabbath not the Popes instituted Sunday .

  • Juan Forero

    You should read the book of Bart Erhman because all the things you said have been discussed already. For example, number one, if that was true, almost no one would have existed based in that idea. Hannibal for example, we don’t have any contemporary sources of his existence and we know he existed. That’s just one.

  • analGod

    now we need to make it into a children’s story for the christians to understand how stupid they are for believeing in such childish stories. Next a group is going to rise and talk about the Ice Giants. Sheesh…

    • hotopr

      Childish story? Just some key points: There are 4 gospels, from 4 different people. They wrote down, what they saw, what the heard, and what they (some of them) experienced . Jesus himself wrote no book with instructions (as nowadays every guru does), he always pointed to the scripture and also he instructed 12 men and that was it.
      On the other hand, the scripture points to Jesus too and explains very exactly his death and his resurrection.

      All parts of the bible, if understood right, are the truth.
      But 1st: let me ask you, what is the purpose of that book?

      But not all people can understand what Jesus did, the bible tells us that:
      1. Corinthinas 1,18: For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

      And 2nd: Whats the difference between the bible and other books?
      The Bible has a lot of prophecies which are fulfilled right now. Prof Gitt explains that 3268 Prophecies in the bible are fulfilled.
      Some of the prophecies will be fulfilled in the future.

      Isn’t that amazing?

  • John King

    Of course the Jesus story is a Roman hoax. How could it be otherwise? Does anyone really accept the reality of a virgin birth, miracles and resurrection? Of course not.The laws of physics are the same today as they were 2000 years ago!

  • bobmead1960

    This is all bunk! If you want a free apologetic book that is revolutionary in it concepts, go to, “Come on MAN, Speak English to ME about GOD” It will tell you the purpose for your life, agreed upon by 99.5% of people. Told to over 85% non-spiritual people. Given in two halves of pdf file. Not to be shared!

  • Dragon BallZ

    My simple logic, if Christianity was hoax, how it survived Jewish and Roman oppression. Jews tried their best to destroy the Christian faith. Still Christianity survived and became one of the powerful relegions.Romans had also their religion with all powerful gods like Hinduism, there was no need for the Romans to accept Christianity. Why Romans had left their beautiful religion and accept religion based on non-roman character Jesus. The Christianity spread and survived because it was true.

  • Mike

    Well one things for sure, this will piss off all those who believe the myth.